Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 53

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 10:11 PM

I just wanted to remind you guyz that in a couple of years I will be playing this:

Buy Marshall JTM45 Amp Head | Tube Amp Heads | Musician's Friend

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

I just wanted to remind you guyz that in a couple of years I will be playing this:

Buy Marshall JTM45 Amp Head | Tube Amp Heads | Musician's Friend

Yeah, yeah and I'll be playing a Twister F3.

I didn't know that they are actually using a GZ34 tube rectifier in the JTM. That's cool.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 10:37 PM

RATT...

Did the testing on the RFT 7025A. Mine read 18-17. So it is on its last leg. I mean it could go for a while until the heaters go. Once they get down to numbers like this, it is hard to estimate what the gain factor is. I'm thinking in the 5751 range, or about 70.

Might work fine in V1 for a smoother sound.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 10:43 PM

Got the dope from Edicron about the EL34 tubes. Three are RFT's and two of them were made in 1984 and one was made in 1988. The other one is a Russian tube made to RFT specifications from the plant that now makes EH (New Sensor).

The only problem with that newer one is that 1995 was a horrible year for EL34's. This is why Marshall went with the 220K grid stoppers on their amps.

As I said, I'm glad I only had $50 in this.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-04-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Got the dope from Edicron about the EL34 tubes. Three are RFT's and two of them were made in 1984 and one was made in 1988. The other one is a Russian tube made to RFT specifications from the plant that now makes EH (New Sensor).

The only problem with that newer one is that 1995 was a horrible year for EL34's. This is why Marshall went with the 220K grid stoppers on their amps.

As I said, I'm glad I only had $50 in this.

That's it then. Glad you were able to find out though so you don't hurt your amp. You can make some money back on a pair eh if you want to down the road.

Gotta go to work. Talk to ya's later!

RiverRatt · 10-04-2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Sonotone info:

By the 1950's Sonotone was making over 400 different tubes. They were popular receiving tubes ranging all the way from 0Z4 to 7199's. They also sold European EL, EM, EZ etc. In addition, there were special purpose tubes made for the Signal Corps at Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey. The automated tube manufacturing equipment was located at the Elmsford factory. The progressive line was circular, about 20 feet in diameter. There were many gas jets at each step to heat the glass and shape it. It was very impressive to watch. Some of the tubes were made by other manufacturers with the Sonotone name on them. Some were made by Telefunken, Mullard and Amperex. An economy line was later introduced with tubes made in Japan and were sold in green boxes. By the mid-sixties, tube sales decreased with the advancement of transistors. The tube manufacturing equipment was sold, and hearing aid production was moved from Main Street in White Plains, a few miles away, to the Elmsford plant.

I just did some extensive researching and the only side getter that I can find by RCA is a "Clear Top" 12AU7. Have you seen or heard of RCA 12AX7A's with a side getter? If so, they must be rare. I don't see any side getters by Amperex, Mullard or Telefunken. Sonotone made their own tubes, so these could be original, side getter Sonotone's.

Here's the only thing I've found that's similar. This is supposed to be an RCA 7025. The tube name is in a little rectangle like every other RCA I've seen, and the getter flash is in the right place. If these Sonotones are RCA, why does the 12AX7A not look right?

RiverRatt · 10-04-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

RATT...

Did the testing on the RFT 7025A. Mine read 18-17. So it is on its last leg. I mean it could go for a while until the heaters go. Once they get down to numbers like this, it is hard to estimate what the gain factor is. I'm thinking in the 5751 range, or about 70.

Might work fine in V1 for a smoother sound.

I'm sorry, Marty. I thought I was sending you a good tube. I guess the other one is probably the same. The seller tested them as identical. You want the extra RCA 12BZ7 instead?

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 10:05 AM

Well got my new tubes in and it sounds good but now its really noisy at low and no volume. Is that normal for higher gain tubes? When I tap on each tube they dont make any loud popping noises, but the BP in v2 rings real loud through the speaker like a bell chime when I tap it. v4 also chimes when tapped. v1 and v3 make no noise. Should I move them around and see what happens or is it normal.

Thanks, Racko.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-04-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Well got my new tubes in and it sounds good but now its really noisy at low and no volume. Is that normal for higher gain tubes? When I tap on each tube they dont make any loud popping noises, but the BP in v2 rings real loud through the speaker like a bell chime when I tap it. v4 also chimes when tapped. v1 and v3 make no noise. Should I move them around and see what happens or is it normal.

Thanks, Racko.

Is it like this:

YouTube - What Is A Microphonic Tube?

This is what my JJ 803S sounded like when it went.

You Tube

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 10:39 AM

Yea I kinda got both sounds. Im gonna roll them around when I get off work. Thanks Solar

MartyStrat54 · 10-04-2009, 03:38 PM

[QUOTE=RiverRatt;64245]Here's the only thing I've found that's similar. This is supposed to be an RCA 7025. The tube name is in a little rectangle like every other RCA I've seen, and the getter flash is in the right place. If these Sonotones are RCA, why does the 12AX7A not look right?

The thing is, the Sonotones do not have the RCA marking on them. They can't be RCA. Every tube that RCA made for someone else still had the flattened octagon box on the tube.

MartyStrat54 · 10-04-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

I'm sorry, Marty. I thought I was sending you a good tube. I guess the other one is probably the same. The seller tested them as identical. You want the extra RCA 12BZ7 instead?

No need to do that. I'd rather see someone else take the BZ7.

MartyStrat54 · 10-04-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Well got my new tubes in and it sounds good but now its really noisy at low and no volume. Is that normal for higher gain tubes? When I tap on each tube they dont make any loud popping noises, but the BP in v2 rings real loud through the speaker like a bell chime when I tap it. v4 also chimes when tapped. v1 and v3 make no noise. Should I move them around and see what happens or is it normal.

Thanks, Racko.

Do you have any of your old tubes that you can do a one on one test with each position? It sounds like you may have some of your original tubes that are bad. However, if the BP is microphonic, send it back and I'll replace it.

RiverRatt · 10-04-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Got the dope from Edicron about the EL34 tubes. Three are RFT's and two of them were made in 1984 and one was made in 1988. The other one is a Russian tube made to RFT specifications from the plant that now makes EH (New Sensor).

The only problem with that newer one is that 1995 was a horrible year for EL34's. This is why Marshall went with the 220K grid stoppers on their amps.

As I said, I'm glad I only had $50 in this.

Remember the tube I posted on here awile back that looked like an RFT that was labeled as a Sovtek EL34G? That was one of the ones you're describing. They even claim to have been made on the old RFT equipment. I have four of them that I pulled from my old Laney Pro Tube head.

MartyStrat54 · 10-04-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

Remember the tube I posted on here awile back that looked like an RFT that was labeled as a Sovtek EL34G? That was one of the ones you're describing. They even claim to have been made on the old RFT equipment. I have four of them that I pulled from my old Laney Pro Tube head.

Well, at least they all match power wise and I got the one pair that I can resell as they are RFT's. I hate when I end up with odd amounts of tubes. I mean it is hard to sell one RFT tube, unless you know it will bias up. The Russian "RFT" looks really good, but it's not an RFT.

MartyStrat54 · 10-04-2009, 05:10 PM

RATT...

What do you think about this? Running an RFT EL34 in one slot and a Sylvania Fat Boy 6CA7 in the other slot. Electronically, they are the same, but tone wise they are not. I'll have to try this, as I have an RFT EL34 that tests 88 and also a Fat Boy that tests 88. This could be interesting.

They might combine their mojo and get some mojonation going on.

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 06:18 PM

Okay Marty heres what I'm gonna do. I put all the old tubes back in and the chiming and noise have stopped. Now, can I just try all the tubes you sent me in one spot like v2 and see which is cause, or is there better way? And sorry for all the dumb ass questions I'm a noob to tube amps except for my valve jr. which is way simple. Another quick one, what is the difference between the BP and the two Baldwin tubes for v3 and v4? They are identical in color and construction. I did notice the difference in the Amperex construction.

Thanks for your wisdom guys, this is fun experimenting

MartyStrat54 · 10-04-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Okay Marty heres what I'm gonna do. I put all the old tubes back in and the chiming and noise have stopped. Now, can I just try all the tubes you sent me in one spot like v2 and see which is cause, or is there better way? And sorry for all the dumb ass questions I'm a noob to tube amps except for my valve jr. which is way simple. Another quick one, what is the difference between the BP and the two Baldwin tubes for v3 and v4? They are identical in color and construction. I did notice the difference in the Amperex construction.

Thanks for your wisdom guys, this is fun experimenting

Yes, that will work. Try the tubes I sent you one at a time in V2. I've been lucky and haven't run into to many microphonic tubes. It would be really against the odds if you had more than one bad tube. Let me know and we can get it taken care of.

The Black Plate should have shiny Black Plates. The Sylvania's are Gray Plates.

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 06:52 PM

Im testing them now. other than the fisher/amperex. all 3 of the others are identical grey. maybe accidentally sent the wrong one. Ill take a pic and post it up for you. Racko

RiverRatt · 10-04-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

RATT...

What do you think about this? Running an RFT EL34 in one slot and a Sylvania Fat Boy 6CA7 in the other slot. Electronically, they are the same, but tone wise they are not. I'll have to try this, as I have an RFT EL34 that tests 88 and also a Fat Boy that tests 88. This could be interesting.

They might combine their mojo and get some mojonation going on.

I'm happy where I'm at right now. I tried to buy a set of 6CA7's from a dude awhile back but they were gone before I got back to him. By all means give it a try and let us know what you think.

Do you remember the Groove Tubes 6CA7? It was American made (Kentucky?) on old Sylvania patterns and machines. AFAIK they stopped making them in 2006. I'd like to land a set of those just to see how they sound.

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 07:16 PM

Her are the ones you sent me Marty.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-04-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Her are the ones you sent me Marty.

The BP is to the far right. Take another pic and put it right in front so my eyes quit play'n tricks on me.

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 07:27 PM

thats the one boxed as amperex. I got an amperex, a bp, and two slvannia grey plates. The one boxed bp is the far left.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-04-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

thats the one boxed as amperex. I got an amperex, a bp, and two slvannia grey plates. The one boxed bp is the far left.

I'm looking at them now and my eyes are seeing shades of grey and black. Hopefully someone with better eyes looking at pics can tell. I can see the differences with mine when I'm holding it and looking at it.

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 08:15 PM

Heres another pic Solar. Dont look at yourself before looking at these or youll be blinded. hehehehehe

racko7566 · 10-04-2009, 09:27 PM

Sorry for all the big pic tube porn but I cant help my self

they look so cool.

Jae · 10-04-2009, 11:48 PM

Ok. I was rummaging through a bunch of tubes I've been acquiring for the past month and I've put them in boxes. I'm not bragging, but just wanted to show you how tube crazy I was for the past month.

GE and RCA's on the leftmost
Second are the Telefunkens (99% smooth plate)
Sylvanias
Mullards

All 12ax7s.

I'm sure some of you have lots and lots, but here is another tube whore.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-04-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae

Ok. I was rummaging through a bunch of tubes I've been acquiring for the past month and I've put them in boxes. I'm not bragging, but just wanted to show you how tube crazy I was for the past month.

GE and RCA's on the leftmost
Second are the Telefunkens (99% smooth plate)
Sylvanias
Mullards

All 12ax7s.

I'm sure some of you have lots and lots, but here is another tube whore.

That's a nice lil' lot Jae.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-04-2009, 11:56 PM

[QUOTE=racko7566;64422]Heres another pic Solar. Dont look at yourself before looking at these or youll be blinded. hehehehehe

Yeah I can make those out now. Just PM Marty.

PaoloJM · 10-05-2009, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae

Ok. I was rummaging through a bunch of tubes I've been acquiring for the past month and I've put them in boxes. I'm not bragging, but just wanted to show you how tube crazy I was for the past month.

GE and RCA's on the leftmost
Second are the Telefunkens (99% smooth plate)
Sylvanias
Mullards

All 12ax7s.

I'm sure some of you have lots and lots, but here is another tube whore.

Wow, what I wouldn't give....

10-03-2009, 10:37 PM	#1563 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? RATT... Did the testing on the RFT 7025A. Mine read 18-17. So it is on its last leg. I mean it could go for a while until the heaters go. Once they get down to numbers like this, it is hard to estimate what the gain factor is. I'm thinking in the 5751 range, or about 70. Might work fine in V1 for a smoother sound. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-03-2009, 10:43 PM	#1564 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Got the dope from Edicron about the EL34 tubes. Three are RFT's and two of them were made in 1984 and one was made in 1988. The other one is a Russian tube made to RFT specifications from the plant that now makes EH (New Sensor). The only problem with that newer one is that 1995 was a horrible year for EL34's. This is why Marshall went with the 220K grid stoppers on their amps. As I said, I'm glad I only had $50 in this. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-04-2009, 10:05 AM	#1568 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Well got my new tubes in and it sounds good but now its really noisy at low and no volume. Is that normal for higher gain tubes? When I tap on each tube they dont make any loud popping noises, but the BP in v2 rings real loud through the speaker like a bell chime when I tap it. v4 also chimes when tapped. v1 and v3 make no noise. Should I move them around and see what happens or is it normal. Thanks, Racko.

10-04-2009, 10:39 AM	#1570 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Yea I kinda got both sounds. Im gonna roll them around when I get off work. Thanks Solar

10-04-2009, 03:38 PM	#1571 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? [QUOTE=RiverRatt;64245]Here's the only thing I've found that's similar. This is supposed to be an RCA 7025. The tube name is in a little rectangle like every other RCA I've seen, and the getter flash is in the right place. If these Sonotones are RCA, why does the 12AX7A not look right? The thing is, the Sonotones do not have the RCA marking on them. They can't be RCA. Every tube that RCA made for someone else still had the flattened octagon box on the tube. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-04-2009, 05:10 PM	#1576 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? RATT... What do you think about this? Running an RFT EL34 in one slot and a Sylvania Fat Boy 6CA7 in the other slot. Electronically, they are the same, but tone wise they are not. I'll have to try this, as I have an RFT EL34 that tests 88 and also a Fat Boy that tests 88. This could be interesting. They might combine their mojo and get some mojonation going on. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-04-2009, 06:18 PM	#1577 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Okay Marty heres what I'm gonna do. I put all the old tubes back in and the chiming and noise have stopped. Now, can I just try all the tubes you sent me in one spot like v2 and see which is cause, or is there better way? And sorry for all the dumb ass questions I'm a noob to tube amps except for my valve jr. which is way simple. Another quick one, what is the difference between the BP and the two Baldwin tubes for v3 and v4? They are identical in color and construction. I did notice the difference in the Amperex construction. Thanks for your wisdom guys, this is fun experimenting

10-04-2009, 06:52 PM	#1579 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Im testing them now. other than the fisher/amperex. all 3 of the others are identical grey. maybe accidentally sent the wrong one. Ill take a pic and post it up for you. Racko

10-04-2009, 07:16 PM	#1581 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Her are the ones you sent me Marty.

10-04-2009, 07:27 PM	#1583 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? thats the one boxed as amperex. I got an amperex, a bp, and two slvannia grey plates. The one boxed bp is the far left.

10-04-2009, 08:15 PM	#1585 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Heres another pic Solar. Dont look at yourself before looking at these or youll be blinded. hehehehehe

10-04-2009, 09:27 PM	#1586 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Sorry for all the big pic tube porn but I cant help my self they look so cool.

10-04-2009, 11:48 PM	#1587 (permalink)
Jae Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 261	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Ok. I was rummaging through a bunch of tubes I've been acquiring for the past month and I've put them in boxes. I'm not bragging, but just wanted to show you how tube crazy I was for the past month. GE and RCA's on the leftmost Second are the Telefunkens (99% smooth plate) Sylvanias Mullards All 12ax7s. I'm sure some of you have lots and lots, but here is another tube whore.

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