Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 52

ken361 · 10-03-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaoloJM

Lads,
I figured this would be the best place to post this.

This is a tone test of a bunch of the main types of 12Ax7 type preamp valves from my little stash.

The clips are all recorded using my Harley Benton GA5 as it only uses one preamp valve so the tone of each should come across clear than if there were multiple preamp valves.

The clips are recorded with my USA Strat on the neck pick up straight to the HA GA5 => V30 speaker and close miked with a SM57 => MBox and ProTools.
No post EQ or effects are used.

With the volume at 10 you're hearing some farty blocking distortion. This was the first amp I modifyed, and at the time I figured any series grid resistance was taking away from valuable gain, so there's no grid stop at all between the two halves. Haven't had time to get back in there to sort it out.

I recorded each clip in the same format, volume at 5 followed by volume at 10 with some chords and single notes in each, to allow for easy comparison.
The power valve is a JJ84.

I haven't adjusted the volume between clips either to show relative volumes with the lower gain valves.

For some reason my JAN 57571, the NOS Mullard Yellow Label, NOS Mazda, NOS Sylvania and the Brimar wouldn't run in the HB.

The idea is to have a fair comparison for people to hear the differences from an independant source all recording under the exact same conditions and equipment.

Lemme whatcha think.

SoundClick artist: Preamp Valve Test - page with MP3 music downloads

kinda digging the mullard, like to hear a RFT though. Good sounds clips bro!

rockinr0ll · 10-03-2009, 02:45 PM

THANK YOU, I have been waiting for someone to do this!

Mullard - Good
Chinese - Meh
EH 12AT7 - Great
EH - Not as good as the Mullard
Harma - Liked the clean (any more info on this tube?)
JJ 12AT7 - Liked the EH better
NEC - nice
(?) - sounds alright
12AU7 - nice (for lower gain)
Pinnacle - nice (like a lot actually)
Sovtek - not a fan of these
Tongsol - overrated

Winners:

Mullard
EH
Pinnacle

Losers:

Chinese
JJ
Sovtek

All the others where alright.

rockinr0ll · 10-03-2009, 02:48 PM

It's a shame you couldn't get the other tubes to work because those are some real "winners".

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaoloJM

Lads,
I figured this would be the best place to post this.

This is a tone test of a bunch of the main types of 12Ax7 type preamp valves from my little stash.

The clips are all recorded using my Harley Benton GA5 as it only uses one preamp valve so the tone of each should come across clear than if there were multiple preamp valves.

The clips are recorded with my USA Strat on the neck pick up straight to the HA GA5 => V30 speaker and close miked with a SM57 => MBox and ProTools.
No post EQ or effects are used.

With the volume at 10 you're hearing some farty blocking distortion. This was the first amp I modifyed, and at the time I figured any series grid resistance was taking away from valuable gain, so there's no grid stop at all between the two halves. Haven't had time to get back in there to sort it out.

I recorded each clip in the same format, volume at 5 followed by volume at 10 with some chords and single notes in each, to allow for easy comparison.
The power valve is a JJ84.

I haven't adjusted the volume between clips either to show relative volumes with the lower gain valves.

For some reason my JAN 57571, the NOS Mullard Yellow Label, NOS Mazda, NOS Sylvania and the Brimar wouldn't run in the HB.

The idea is to have a fair comparison for people to hear the differences from an independant source all recording under the exact same conditions and equipment.

Lemme whatcha think.

SoundClick artist: Preamp Valve Test - page with MP3 music downloads

I can make out differences on the clean clips but even the clean is buried/clipping a bit. Can you get it more open and upfront(increase presence)sounding?

The overdriven clips are just horrible for gauging anything as it is so farty sounding.

Love the idea but need a much clearer platform to illustrate the character these tubes offer. I use clean to midgain tones to gauge mine, without the fuzz though.

I understand having things set the same and giving a fair test all around but the soundfield/recording you have is flubby/hairy to me. Even the clean has hair on it hehe.

rockinr0ll · 10-03-2009, 02:59 PM

It's just because the amp he is using is a small Harley GA5. I think the demo got the point across beautifully just give it time and you will here the comparisons of the tube (not the amp).

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockinr0ll

It's just because the amp he is using is a small Harley GA5. I think the demo got the point across beautifully just give it time and you will here the comparisons of the tube (not the amp).

I can't make out anything on the overdriven clips because its too hairy and fuzzed out. Makes it too hard for my ears to make anything out. The cleans I can because there is not as much hair in the way.

If it works for you more power to ya. Maybe my ears are as bad as my eyes hehe.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 03:38 PM

Ahh, I stayed up late last night, but obviously not late enough. I thought everybody had gone to bed.

rockinr0ll · 10-03-2009, 03:39 PM

lol Marty

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procter2812

Theres the Brimar( relabeled Mullard) on the left and the Yellow plate Mullard on the right.

They are the same. The Brimar even has a Blackburn code.

Just because it had brimar on it was £7 and sounds awesome!

Alex

Well that's great news since Jae (I believe) asked me in a prior post about this. Apparently my answer was correct. Mullard did make tubes for Brimar. You just proved it right here. Also, they were making tubes for Brimar (1961) before the big collapse of the tube industry. Very interesting.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRatt

Can you guys help me out with these tubes? I have two Sonotone-branded ECC83 tubes. I've always assumed they were RCA because they have a side getter, but they don't look like my RCA 12AU7A cleartops in their construction, and there is a little bit of flash in the top of the tubes. The plates look exactly like my 1966 Mullard, but they don't flash. They also don't have a box around the 12AX7A at the top of the tube like RCA tubes do. I know that a lot of Sonotone stuff is from Germany, but these are labled "Made in USA". Here's the best picture I could get. The bottom of the tube appears to have the number "14" embossed, with radial lines coming from the center. These pics are of the same tube. The one on the right is the side with the getter flash, but it didn't come through good in the pic. I don't think they look much like RCAs, but they may be.

I was doing an inventory of my main tone tubes. I have two RCA 12BZ7s, and i really don't need both. These are NOS and aren't microphonic. If anyone wants one of them, PM me.

I will try and do some research on these. However, as previously stated, it can say, "Made in USA" on the tube, but it can be made somewhere else. This went on for at least six years. I've talked about this before. I have RCA Mullards and they say, "Made in USA" on the box and "Made in Gt. Britain" on the tube. Tricky dicks.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 03:54 PM

Holy Cow! SolarBurn has a new avatar and it is a scorcher. Makes me feel like I'm living back in Phoenix. That's what the sun looks like there in the summer time. I need something cool to drink.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

That's awesome. Very informative. Thanks for that post Jesstaa!

Guess I shouldn't have stayed up late as I see you were up early. Good to hear from you again and I hope we see more of you. Your online bud, Marty.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Holy Cow! SolarBurn has a new avatar and it is a scorcher. Makes me feel like I'm living back in Phoenix. That's what the sun looks like there in the summer time. I need something cool to drink.

I need more sun working the graveyard shift.

Hope no one gets sunburned hehe.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 04:25 PM

Sonotone info:

By the 1950's Sonotone was making over 400 different tubes. They were popular receiving tubes ranging all the way from 0Z4 to 7199's. They also sold European EL, EM, EZ etc. In addition, there were special purpose tubes made for the Signal Corps at Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey. The automated tube manufacturing equipment was located at the Elmsford factory. The progressive line was circular, about 20 feet in diameter. There were many gas jets at each step to heat the glass and shape it. It was very impressive to watch. Some of the tubes were made by other manufacturers with the Sonotone name on them. Some were made by Telefunken, Mullard and Amperex. An economy line was later introduced with tubes made in Japan and were sold in green boxes. By the mid-sixties, tube sales decreased with the advancement of transistors. The tube manufacturing equipment was sold, and hearing aid production was moved from Main Street in White Plains, a few miles away, to the Elmsford plant.

I just did some extensive researching and the only side getter that I can find by RCA is a "Clear Top" 12AU7. Have you seen or heard of RCA 12AX7A's with a side getter? If so, they must be rare. I don't see any side getters by Amperex, Mullard or Telefunken. Sonotone made their own tubes, so these could be original, side getter Sonotone's.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

I need more sun working the graveyard shift.

Hope no one gets sunburned hehe.

Yeah, something tells me you could get mighty pale working that late shift. Have you ever considered a tanning salon? SOLARBURN in a tanning salon.

zimske · 10-03-2009, 05:06 PM

finally on the internet after a couple of days, so guys thanks for the IDing of my tubes. looks like a fine beginner's collection, two tungsrams and one rca 7025.

the joys of rolling ensue.

[how much could i price these three in case i decide to let them go so i can get me some 5751's?]

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

finally on the internet after a couple of days, so guys thanks for the IDing of my tubes. looks like a fine beginner's collection, two tungsrams and one rca 7025.

the joys of rolling ensue.

[how much could i price these three in case i decide to let them go so i can get me some 5751's?]

The Tungsrams are high quality tubes, but they are not commanding very high prices. I believe if you go back a few pages, RATT posted how he sold some on EBAY and he didn't make much off of them at all.

My advice is to keep them and use them.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Yeah, something tells me you could get mighty pale working that late shift. Have you ever considered a tanning salon? SOLARBURN in a tanning salon.

Massage parlor yes.

Tanning bed? Nah. I'd sit in the lobby and hottie watch though...

zimske · 10-03-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

The Tungsrams are high quality tubes, but they are not commanding very high prices. I believe if you go back a few pages, RATT posted how he sold some on EBAY and he didn't make much off of them at all.

My advice is to keep them and use them.

yeah, probably will do just that.

which of these are "darker" tungsrams or 7025's?

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

Massage parlor yes.

Tanning bed? Nah. I'd sit in the lobby and hottie watch though...

Well I know that you have been over to the Noobs thread and I know you saw that huge thing that was posted. Well, sitting at a tanning salon, that's what you would see. Maybe 10 per cent of their business is some hotties. 90 per cent is huge, massive women that the tanning beds cannot contain...so they do one half at a time. Yummy!

This post has nothing to do with tubes and may be in conflict with the thoughts of the Preamp Tube Administration, or PTA.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

yeah, probably will do just that.

which of these are "darker" tungsrams or 7025's?

The RCA 7025 is a cleaner, tighter sounding tube IMO. The Tungsrams have somewhat of a Mullard sound. They tend to breakup when driven hard. I wouldn't say they are a dark tube.

Maybe RATT can pipe in on this since he ran some in his amp.

racko7566 · 10-03-2009, 05:47 PM

Cant wait till my tubes get here from Marty, I'm looking forward to joining in on the rolling tubes and joining in discussions. I got an Amperex and a Raytheon blackplate for v1 and v2. Does anyone else have these in v1 and v2? And if so what do you think of this combination?

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Cant wait till my tubes get here from Marty, I'm looking forward to joining in on the rolling tubes and joining in discussions. I got an Amperex and a Raytheon blackplate for v1 and v2. Does anyone else have these in v1 and v2? And if so what do you think of this combination?

What amp are you putting them in?

Those are great tubes. I haven't ran them in that combination. BP's work well in my DSL. Very nice.

racko7566 · 10-03-2009, 06:27 PM

Sorry, It's a DSL 100 all stock now.

MartyStrat54 · 10-03-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Sorry, It's a DSL 100 all stock now.

Hey, I left you a PM. Get back to me when you can.

racko7566 · 10-03-2009, 07:36 PM

Well, my tubes are in from Marty. So guess what ill be doing for the rest of the night

2 quick questions for you guys, Do I have to line up the spot thats missing a pin in the same spot that was blank? And do you rebias after pre amp changes? thanx, Racko

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Well, my tubes are in from Marty. So guess what ill be doing for the rest of the night

2 quick questions for you guys, Do I have to line up the spot thats missing a pin in the same spot that was blank? And do you rebias after pre amp changes? thanx, Racko

Yes. Its the only way it will fit in. No biasing of preamps. Only power tubes.

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 07:41 PM

Work them preamp tubes in carefully. Don't be ham fisted hehe.

racko7566 · 10-03-2009, 07:42 PM

Wasn't sure if changes in curcuit would effect power end. Thanks Solar. I just looked directly at you, now im blind!!! yet still typing LOL

solarburnDSL50 · 10-03-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racko7566

Wasn't sure if changes in curcuit would effect power end. Thanks Solar. I just looked directly at you, now im blind!!! yet still typing LOL

10-03-2009, 02:45 PM	#1532 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? THANK YOU, I have been waiting for someone to do this! Mullard - Good Chinese - Meh EH 12AT7 - Great EH - Not as good as the Mullard Harma - Liked the clean (any more info on this tube?) JJ 12AT7 - Liked the EH better NEC - nice (?) - sounds alright 12AU7 - nice (for lower gain) Pinnacle - nice (like a lot actually) Sovtek - not a fan of these Tongsol - overrated Winners: Mullard EH Pinnacle Losers: Chinese JJ Sovtek All the others where alright.

10-03-2009, 02:48 PM	#1533 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? It's a shame you couldn't get the other tubes to work because those are some real "winners".

10-03-2009, 02:59 PM	#1535 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? It's just because the amp he is using is a small Harley GA5. I think the demo got the point across beautifully just give it time and you will here the comparisons of the tube (not the amp).

10-03-2009, 03:38 PM	#1537 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Ahh, I stayed up late last night, but obviously not late enough. I thought everybody had gone to bed. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-03-2009, 03:39 PM	#1538 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? lol Marty

10-03-2009, 03:54 PM	#1541 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Holy Cow! SolarBurn has a new avatar and it is a scorcher. Makes me feel like I'm living back in Phoenix. That's what the sun looks like there in the summer time. I need something cool to drink. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-03-2009, 04:25 PM	#1544 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Sonotone info: By the 1950's Sonotone was making over 400 different tubes. They were popular receiving tubes ranging all the way from 0Z4 to 7199's. They also sold European EL, EM, EZ etc. In addition, there were special purpose tubes made for the Signal Corps at Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey. The automated tube manufacturing equipment was located at the Elmsford factory. The progressive line was circular, about 20 feet in diameter. There were many gas jets at each step to heat the glass and shape it. It was very impressive to watch. Some of the tubes were made by other manufacturers with the Sonotone name on them. Some were made by Telefunken, Mullard and Amperex. An economy line was later introduced with tubes made in Japan and were sold in green boxes. By the mid-sixties, tube sales decreased with the advancement of transistors. The tube manufacturing equipment was sold, and hearing aid production was moved from Main Street in White Plains, a few miles away, to the Elmsford plant. I just did some extensive researching and the only side getter that I can find by RCA is a "Clear Top" 12AU7. Have you seen or heard of RCA 12AX7A's with a side getter? If so, they must be rare. I don't see any side getters by Amperex, Mullard or Telefunken. Sonotone made their own tubes, so these could be original, side getter Sonotone's. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-03-2009, 05:06 PM	#1546 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? finally on the internet after a couple of days, so guys thanks for the IDing of my tubes. looks like a fine beginner's collection, two tungsrams and one rca 7025. the joys of rolling ensue. [how much could i price these three in case i decide to let them go so i can get me some 5751's?]

10-03-2009, 05:47 PM	#1552 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Cant wait till my tubes get here from Marty, I'm looking forward to joining in on the rolling tubes and joining in discussions. I got an Amperex and a Raytheon blackplate for v1 and v2. Does anyone else have these in v1 and v2? And if so what do you think of this combination?

10-03-2009, 06:27 PM	#1554 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Sorry, It's a DSL 100 all stock now.

10-03-2009, 07:36 PM	#1556 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Well, my tubes are in from Marty. So guess what ill be doing for the rest of the night 2 quick questions for you guys, Do I have to line up the spot thats missing a pin in the same spot that was blank? And do you rebias after pre amp changes? thanx, Racko

10-03-2009, 07:42 PM	#1559 (permalink)
racko7566 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lancaster, Pa. Posts: 72	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Wasn't sure if changes in curcuit would effect power end. Thanks Solar. I just looked directly at you, now im blind!!! yet still typing LOL

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode