MartyStrat54

We meet again. Glad you got it solved. I'm glad it was something as easy as a tube.

Marty

MartyStrat54

I did the same thing myself. I did some more research and it may all be for naught. Apparently, they have only made some small batches and the poor economic times might prevent them for doing a major tube run.

I also found out that the tubes were really expensive and that the company has yet to release any test data on their tubes (all of the audiophiles are screaming for it).

But then on the flip side, I read were they were going to start making EL34's and EL84's. That would be great as long as they aren't $150 per pair. If this all comes about, it will have a great effect on the price of NOS tubes on EBAY. It will cause a price ceiling and that would be good for me. I paid $99 plus shipping for my EL34 Mullards. They both tested 100. I think the price will go down if Blackburn (Mullard) starts a major production of tubes. This should cause their prices to go down as well. If a guy can get a new UK 12AX7 for $30, then that's not too bad. The bottom line is that these are high quality tubes, not some Chinese piece of crap.

Marty

MartyStrat54

Well I have yet to hear from Blackburn about their tubes. Not a good sign if you know what I mean.

There have been several threads were people were asking about preamp tube advice. I sent them here and received really good feedback.

Tick...tick...tick...

Marty

joshuaaewallen

That's a bummer. I still haven't heard back from them either. I know that there are lots of us who would love to buy a quality European or American made tube.

Yeah... I wish it was that simple. But alas... I did verify the model of YJ before making my purchase with both The Tube Store and with THD via email. No doubt about it, these are supposed to work with my amp.

I put new power tubes in and biased. And have been rolling various different tubes to experiment with tone for a while now. For me, unfortunately, the YJ's just didn't last.

I thought about trying the tone bones, but in the end... Since I already had store credit w/ The tube store, elected to just get more tubes so I have a variety to work with.

These tubes arrived a few days ago. And combined with the tubes Marty sent me to try out...

Holy Hannah there are a LOT of tubes here to try out now! My missus better keep me on a short leash or I'll likely disappear for a solid month as I try to run through these!

__________________
Josh

2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top
Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested)
1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122
- Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's
- Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll...
HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper


http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/

"... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

jrm

Hey guys, I've been reading this thread and I love it. I also picked up a dsl 50 last fall (from a member here) I really like the amp, it was loaded with jj's. I did notice it being very harsh and bright. I don't want to downgrade the jj's the amp was very quiet and clean and very responsive. I can see where some people would love it but wasn't for me.

I had picked up some older preamp tubes 3 ge 12ax7 and 1 rca 12at7 put those in and it really warmed it up. I still have jj e34l in the amp but I'm planning to try some different combos of newer tubes in the future to see what I like. Thumbs up on the tests, i love reading this stuff.

solarburnDSL50

You just pull up a chair and join the best tube thread go'n!

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

jrm

Just curious, your ID says your dsl is modded. What did you have done? Big difference? Just wondering if the mods affect your tube choices different then a stock.

__________________
1979 JMP 2203
1998 DSL50

solarburnDSL50

I had a circuit mod, MM OT upgrade and a choke added. Really I just roll what tubes I think I want to try based on info and others experience. So directly comparing your stock one to mine I really can't tell you how much of a difference there is anymore. I would roll tubes before any modding first though and see if I could find some tone stack I really like.

The tubes we are talking about here as far as NOS and some new production you just have to try sometimes cause tone is a personal thing. I would say the right tubes will make a stock amp or a modded amp sound better.

The ones I would recommend I believe would get you some nice tones. Others share the same view based on their experience with tubes in their amps. We all aren't going to love the same tubes. You're going to be the judge of your amps tone. Have fun roll'n and pace yourself. If you want any suggestions I will offer them. Just ask.

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

jrm

Tone wise I like classic rock and metal (schenker, lifeson, rhoads) I like a nice warm tone. My dsl is stock (drake transformers) I did snip the bright cap on the lead channel and really only use the lead channel for a punchy clean tone. I use the green channel more with a od pedal in front. I'm happy with the stock tone just thinking the right tubes would get me to a better tone.

What tubes do you recommend, I have the 3 ge 12 ax7 and 1 12at7 plus i have some mesa branded 12 ax7 here. What about power tubes?

I usually play a gibson les paul or prs throught it plugged into some old peavey vht cabs with celestions if that helps any.

__________________
1979 JMP 2203
1998 DSL50

solarburnDSL50

First tell me what brand AT7 you have. If you want to use a AT7 I'd prolly put it in the PI slot. Were the GE's tested or do you know if new or used? I'd prolly put 1 GE in the V3 spot. V1 & V2 will figure out next. The celestions speakers, are they V30, GT-75's, Greenbacks, G12H30's, K100's or do you know? This will help but its not a deciding factor on what tubes.

Usually new production are about $15 on average. I know it varies a few dollars here and there. The NOS I will recommend may be $20 to $40. So if I recommend a $40 one it will be for only one tube cause I'm gonna mix it up a little for that tone stack. Let me know if you would spend that much for one NOS tube. Get back to me and will pick tubes together.

By the way we like some of the same guitar tones regarding Schenker and Lifeson.

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

solarburnDSL50

I missed the power tubes question. I would recommend Tung Sol EL34B's, Sed Winged C or Ruby El34-BSTR's.

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

RiverRatt

OK, I finally scored a couple of 12BZ7's from the Tube Depot. I got two RCA gray plates yesterday. These were not what I was expecting at all. I put one in V2 on my DSL50 and I'm really pleased with the tone. I was expecting something over-the-top, but these things SING. It really doesn't seem to have much effect until you crank up the gain. Nice, creamy sustain from the neck pickup of my LP, and more agressive on the bridge pickup with nice pinch harmonics. It seems to respond well to pick attack, too. Thanks for the tip - these are definitely a keeper.

I ended up with this setup: V1=RCA side-getter ECC83, V2=RCA gray plate 12BZ7, V3=Raytheon black plate 12AT7 (I don't have any way to measure the gain on this tube, but I can't hear much difference between it and a 12AX7 - it has VERY short plates), and a new Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V4.

On a side note, I noticed on one of the 12BZ7's and on one of my RCA clear tops that I pulled for the BZ7 that the spacers are askew. Will this affect the tube's performance?

solarburnDSL50

When you say spacers are you talking about the rubber grommets around the tube hole on the amp?

Also I'm interested in why you put an AT7 in V3 instead of the PI? No rules here just curious...

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

solarburnDSL50

Ok guys, I gots to go to the gym and then hit the sack. So for those I was helping I will be back.

I'm sure others will be help'n out! You know who you are...

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

RiverRatt

The mica spacers inside the tube. Both the top and bottom one are slanted about 5 to 10 degrees. I hate the rubber grommets - they are annoying when you are swapping a bunch of tubes and you have to fish them out every time. And, the new Tung-Sols are so big that they barely fit with the grommet in place.

Why the 12AT7? I was swapping tubes all evening. I used to have the AT7 in the PI spot, actually. It happened to be one of the better choices in V3 - like I said, it doesn't sound much like a 12AT7. There may have been a very slight drop in volume, but it's a great sounding tube so I left it there. I'm not through tinkering yet - it may or may not stay in V3.

solarburnDSL50

Ok, I gotcha now. I just couldn't think of what the spacers were. I've been up a LONG time too so I'm a bit delirious. I work graveyard and am on my days off. Yesterday I made the mistake of sleeping late in the day and staying up all night.

Yeah I was just wondering what you noticed. I've used an AT7 in V1 and thought the gain didn't really get neutered there either. Thought it sounded good in the tone stack that way.

I know for me I try the tubes out and see what actually happens. Never know when ya might talk yourself out of a winning combination otherwise. Also you find out some of these guys here know what they're talking about.

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

joshuaaewallen

Okay, okay... Enough already!

Well... I have had a few hours of play time the other day to try out two of my good buddy Marty's goodies. Leaving V3 & V4 filled with the JJ's I have (V3 a JJ Goldpin), I have started the ball rolling with the following:

V1: An RCA 7025 tested at 24-26 (by Marty)


and in V2...

Speaking of "Little Wooden Shoes"... Here is a Dutch treat (2AX7) that Marty tested at 30/30 and was gracious enough to send to me for testing in my TSL122. Made in Holland by fair skinned blond folks wearing wooden shoes...


Uh... Yeah. This is a VERY nice combo for the V1 & V2 slots.

The clean channel is absolutely phenomenal. Crisp. Clean. Warm. Sparkly. Just a real treat to play.

The Crunch channel has AC/DC written all over it. Lotsa great 70's era classic rock "crunch" kinda tones. Not too bright, but plenty of definition even with my stale strings. With the gain maxed and eq'd just so... Think "All Right Now" by Free.

Lead. Yeah. Lead, follow, or get out of the way! Plenty of gain on tap. Not quite as creamy as some tube combos I've tried, but very expressive. The articulation is nice as well, but is a bit lacking due to a slightly fizzy aspect to the distortion. Don't get me wrong, this is not a bad thing on this amp. It's really great for sounding like live versions of lots of heavier classic rock acts.

Yeah. I'm likin' this.

But... As previously indicated, I have only started down the path... There's a lot left to try, so stay tuned! And thanks again Marty!

I knew you'd like the 12BZ7. They are awesome. I just wish they could survive a combo amp a little better.

Uh... I really have no idea. Where's my Jedi master Marty?

__________________
Josh

2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top
Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested)
1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122
- Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's
- Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll...
HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper


http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/

"... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

MartyStrat54

One of the strongest 12AX7's that I own has the top mica spacer literally crushed to the connecting components and it works 100 per cent. I have several tube that have the top and bottom mica spacers slanted just as you describe. They all test and perform as they should.

So as long as the tube is working in the circuit, it should be fine. I've only come across a very few 12AX7's that worked on triode A, but not on triode B (or vice versa). This was due to poor quality control at a time when huge numbers of these tubes were being made. Like meat, they only would test small samples and if they passed they would ship the entire production run.

Let us know if the 12BZ7 lasts in you amp. Are you going to try one in your little amp?

Marty

MartyStrat54

Welcome to the thread jrm. Someone here will always answer your tube (and non tube) related questions.

Marty

RiverRatt

That's a nice looking handful of glass Josh! What are the black boxes? I'm not familiar with those.

How's your quest for TVs and stuff going? I also found a Sylvania 6BQ5 in an old TV recently. My latest find was a 1960's GE phonograph in STEREO!. It had one amp and pair of speakers built into the phonograph case, AND it had an extension cabinet that was roughly guitar amp head sized which also had an amp and two speakers built into it, with an On/Volume knob and a tone knob. Both amps used miniatures, so no goldmine, but I put a 1/4 inch jack on the extension cabinet and it makes the ultimate low watt guitar amp. It has the tone of an old Fender Champ, but at a volume you could have a conversation or watch TV over. It even sounds good with pedals as long as you don't push it too hard. Unfortunately, the amp in the turntable cabinet was fried. A big capacitor that looked like a stick of dynamite had leaked all over it. If you (or anyone else) want it to play around with, I'll take it out of the box and send it to you for the cost of shipping. Did I mention that I only paid $13 for it?

MartyStrat54

Quote from JOSH:

The Crunch channel has AC/DC written all over it. Lotsa great 70's era classic rock "crunch" kinda tones. Not too bright, but plenty of definition even with my stale strings.

Do you think it is a wise choice to perform the test will "stale" strings. This will disguise the top end performance of the tube. You may think it is a dark tube, when in fact it is neutral and the strings are making it sound dark. Putting new strings on is going to brighten things up (maybe too much). Ahh, to have the ability to pre-stretch strings and dull them up just a tab. What I call one week old strings...the perfect tone. (Ernie Ball Slinky btw.) Anyway, you control the test with the amp, tubes and guitar. The amp and the tubes are what they call constants and the strings are variables. You have to keep your variable in a small window. I don't want you to go, "Wow! That sounds killer." Then you change strings and go, "Wow!!! That is friggin' bright!"

You see what I'm saying mate?

RiverRatt

Thanks. I didn't think the spacers were a big deal, but I wanted to make sure.

I think the BZ7 is going to be a keeper. I did buy two, so yes, I will try it out in the Blackheart head. I was having too much fun with the Marshall last night to mess with it. You have to remove a ridiculous number of screws to get the back off that head.

While I have your ear, what can you tell me about this tube? I've been told it's a Tungsram. It has a little metal tag in it with the number "63" embossed. I have four of these that I pulled from an old Laney Pro Tube head. There are different numbers on the tags (year of manufacture?).

joshuaaewallen

The black boxes are the Electro Harmonix 12AX7-EH tubes.

Sweet!!!

I know, I know... But the little kid in me just couldn't wait! I have barely touched my axe in near two weeks and the craving took over. But... Since you are correct as usual King Friday, I do plan to repeat the test of those tubes with fresh strings. It's just the "when" part that I'm unsure of.

... Boy, I'm sure glad your not in a hurry!





... And here I am! Well... Maybe not quite!

__________________
Josh

2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top
Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested)
1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122
- Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's
- Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll...
HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper


http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/

"... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

jrm

made a mistake, not a at7 its a 12au7a RCA, it currently sits in the v4. The ge's are used and tested good (according to seller) I forgot the specs as i bought them about 6 months ago. I might be to cheap to spend $40 on 1 tube but let me know what you reccomend new and old.

The speakers are G12-85 celestion (I believe only produced for these cabs) I've owned these for 20 years and played many amps through them, they are good cabs.

what do you think of the mullard reissue el34's? I heard good things about them and what do you bias at?

Yeah I love their tones, glad you do makes it easier to shoot for that nice tone.

__________________
1979 JMP 2203
1998 DSL50

MartyStrat54

jrm


I don't think it's a good idea to run a 12AU7 in your PI slot. It's not going to fry anything, but the gain of a 12AU7 is about 17. Now if you are happy with the sound, power to ya! I just don't hear/see that many people doing this. Maybe a 12AT7 or a 5751, but not a AU7.

Just my own personal comments.

Marty

solarburnDSL50

I gotta agree with Marty here and I like to use less gainful tubes at times. Just a little too low. AT7(I like these), 5751 or a 12AX7. But, we suggest and not govern here so as Marty stated whatever sounds best to your ears.

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

MartyStrat54

Hey Sweet Pea (he-he), thanks for sticking up for me a few threads back. I was just trying to help someone out. You know when someone does something stupid, I rarely hold that against them...but then they go and have to say something. Oh well. I'm over it as I should be.

Marty

solarburnDSL50

I haven't tried the EL34 Mullards yet but Jerry the guy who modded my amp happens to praise these highly in a Marshall. In fact he uses all Mullard RI's in the preamp too.They are on my list of to do. Try them and let me know what ya think.

I'll give you some NOS choices and then some new production ones to choose from. Then let me know what you think sounds good to you.

NOS: Right now I'm demoing an RFT. Good golly Ms Molly is it ballsy. Put a ? maybe on this one. It may be too much for Classic rock...

V1-RCA 12AX7A, JAN Philips 12AX7WA(this is spendy. Creamy OD with nice mids. This slot only)
V2-RCA
V3-GE
PI-Jan($12)or a Mullard CV4024(this is $30)AT7. Both sound great.

New production: You can find these at:12AX7 Preamp Tubes
thetubestore.com Audio and vacuum tubes for your amplifier.

V1-Mullard RI,
V2-Mullard RI, Tung Sol
V3-AC5(Chinese-good tube)
PI-LPS(Sovtec)

Now I am keeping classic rock in mind and the ability to roll off guitar volume nicely as well as having nice clean channel. There are some others I like but I thought I'd throw this out there as I have tried these tubes and found them good in a DSL for our music. I can mix em' all day long...

Also ask Marty about NOS combination's too. He will add more choices and tell you about the tubes as well and he might have them to sell. He has helped me big time with the NOS. Its his fault I use them he he. He really knows what sounds good so ask him. He also tests his tubes so you know what you are getting.

I'm not shy about telling you what I like for certain tones so any questions or comments are welcome. Also whatever you do get you must tell us how it works in your set up. That's the only requirement for joining the thread.

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

solarburnDSL50

Hey I knew what you were doing that's why I chimed in. Besides like I said I'm biased anyways he he.

__________________
DSL50 - FJA modded
Loaded with a Martimus Maximus Preamp Tube Stack
Power tubes 6CA7EH's

Strat HSS & Tele HH

Avatar 412 loaded with Greenbacks

Vox Night Train
Russian NOS 84's
Telefunken & RFT ECC83

RiverRatt

Is this the 80's one with the autobot logo? I bought one of those and it didn't do anything for me.

Marty, did you see my tube question above?