Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 13

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

... Plus it was just too fun to plug in a tube that I found in somebody's old garage-sale junk for about as much $$$ as you'd spend on a happy meal!

Oh that's right. I forgot where you got that. Kewl.

Now I'm hungry...

MartyStrat54 · 05-20-2009, 10:34 PM

Yeah, just send the high gainer back and I will look through my vast selection of chocolates and select a few for you. I most certainly want to include a 7025 for you, because you have never used one of those in V1. Strong and quiet, that's what they are. They make the clean channel, well really clean. Now some of my 7025's are marked 12AX7A's, but they interchange just so you know. However, I will try and send you one that says 7025 on the tube.

I'll top it off with three AX7's that are a couple of notches below the super gain tube. (Hey! I wonder how that high gain tube would sound in Joe's NT? Probably blow the front end off of his amp!)

I should be able to get this in the mail by Friday. I'm busy on and off tomorrow and have an errand to run in KC.

Well, I feel good that Joe is happy with his tone. I feel the same way about my 122. I think we are going to nail your sound down very soon. You can always use a new production tube in V3 and V4. (Remember the PI tube does not have to be balanced.) I've been going with a 22/24 in the PI and the same or higher for the tone stack. However V1 and V2 are still what I call high gain AX7's.

Talk to you later. Marty

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Yeah, just send the high gainer back and I will look through my vast selection of chocolates and select a few for you. I most certainly want to include a 7025 for you, because you have never used one of those in V1. Strong and quiet, that's what they are. They make the clean channel, well really clean. Now some of my 7025's are marked 12AX7A's, but they interchange just so you know. However, I will try and send you one that says 7025 on the tube.

I'll top it off with three AX7's that are a couple of notches below the super gain tube. (Hey! I wonder how that high gain tube would sound in Joe's NT? Probably blow the front end off of his amp!)

I should be able to get this in the mail by Friday. I'm busy on and off tomorrow and have an errand to run in KC.

Well, I feel good that Joe is happy with his tone. I feel the same way about my 122. I think we are going to nail your sound down very soon. You can always use a new production tube in V3 and V4. (Remember the PI tube does not have to be balanced.) I've been going with a 22/24 in the PI and the same or higher for the tone stack. However V1 and V2 are still what I call high gain AX7's.

Talk to you later. Marty

My tone is feeling so good now and we are not blowing my NT up.

Maybe down the road...or tracks...

MartyStrat54 · 05-22-2009, 06:13 PM

Well I got four 7025's of varying gain and four 12AX7's of varying gain all packed and mailed off to Josh. I'm really hoping that he will be able to dial in his sound. The maximum gain available is 30/30 for V1 and 30/30 for V2, so that's a lot of gain.

Maybe by late next week we will hear what the results are.

Marty

joshuaaewallen · 05-22-2009, 10:01 PM

Suhweeeeeeeeet!!!!

Thanks Mate!

MartyStrat54 · 05-25-2009, 03:25 PM

I thought I would post to keep this thread from going down the tank. I had some private conversations with Joe and it was interesting. Joe is thinking about buying and RFT 12AX7. These are "EAST" German tubes that are very well built. Right up there with a Telefunken (West Germany), Amperex (Holland), or Mullard (Great Britain). Right now they are running at about $40 a piece.

I put the xf4 Mullard 6CA7's (EL34's) in my amp about a week ago and I recheck the bias yesterday. I let the amp warm up about 30 minutes or so. The bias was still within range, but I tweaked it just a little. The Mullards improved the bottom end of the amp. They are very robust sounding. I swear that TSL60 gets as loud as my 122, but the 122 has the Man O' War speakers and they are loud and efficient...so it must be my imagination.

I bought four new 12AX7 tubes, NOS for $10 a piece. Can you believe that? Sorry to say I let a pair get away from me and they only went for $31. They were a pair of Hammond by Amperex (Holland) 12AX7's. I'm sort of bummed for spacing that out.

Those Amperex tubes are pretty sweet in V2 and V3.

Well, I've been dicking around with all of my amps this weekend. Even my old Randall's and Peavey's. I forgot what a beast the Peavey MACE is. Six 6L6 power tubes. Solid state pre, but it nails a lot of the 70's and 80's tones.

I think I need to sell some of this stuff. How many amps do you really need? My TSL60 can handle any gig and it is a good practice amp and then I could get a Night Train. So I guess the answer is two.

More preamp tube related info to follow very soon.

Marty

solarburnDSL50 · 05-25-2009, 08:42 PM

Here is a quick dollar saver for those who are looking into trying an AT7. There are many who think the Mullard CV4024 is one of the best AT7's you can get. They are a $30 AT7. I've been rolling tubes in the Night Train for awhile now and it shows different characteristics well. You can here and feel differences in them if there is any. To my ears anyways...

I put in a Jan AT7 which is only $12. I have gone back and forth with the CV4024 and I can't really pick up any differences one way or the other. I've used single coils and humbuckers.

I'd say as a result of my testing save yourself some money and get the Jan AT7. Both sound great to me though paired with an 12AX7 in the NT.

solarburnDSL50 · 05-25-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

I thought I would post to keep this thread from going down the tank. I had some private conversations with Joe and it was interesting. Joe is thinking about buying and RFT 12AX7. These are "EAST" German tubes that are very well built. Right up there with a Telefunken (West Germany), Amperex (Holland), or Mullard (Great Britain). Right now they are running at about $40 a piece.

I put the xf4 Mullard 6CA7's (EL34's) in my amp about a week ago and I recheck the bias yesterday. I let the amp warm up about 30 minutes or so. The bias was still within range, but I tweaked it just a little. The Mullards improved the bottom end of the amp. They are very robust sounding. I swear that TSL60 gets as loud as my 122, but the 122 has the Man O' War speakers and they are loud and efficient...so it must be my imagination.

I bought four new 12AX7 tubes, NOS for $10 a piece. Can you believe that? Sorry to say I let a pair get away from me and they only went for $31. They were a pair of Hammond by Amperex (Holland) 12AX7's. I'm sort of bummed for spacing that out.

Those Amperex tubes are pretty sweet in V2 and V3.

Well, I've been dicking around with all of my amps this weekend. Even my old Randall's and Peavey's. I forgot what a beast the Peavey MACE is. Six 6L6 power tubes. Solid state pre, but it nails a lot of the 70's and 80's tones.

I think I need to sell some of this stuff. How many amps do you really need? My TSL60 can handle any gig and it is a good practice amp and then I could get a Night Train. So I guess the answer is two.

More preamp tube related info to follow very soon.

Marty

Marty is watching out for a $40 version for me. So far, outside of Evilbay, I have only been able to find an RFT 12AX7 for $60 delivered. Other web stores have them listed for $40 but have none in stock. So for now the tube is just on the list to try until I either get a better price or I get jones'n for a $60 preamp tube.

I do have to say again though the tubes I have in the Marshall really do sound great. The RFT will just be an experiment. The DSL doesn't need it.

PS- Night Trains a call'n Marty!

MartyStrat54 · 05-26-2009, 07:10 PM

I'm runnin' a new thread called, "How many amps do you need?" I think I am going to sell off all of my non-Marshall amps and get me a nice low watt boutique amp, say 10 to twenty watts. Man, there are a lot of nice ones out there. Hell, I'm still waiting to try out a Rebel. It has the choice of 6V6 or EL84 tubes, or a blend of the two and adjustable power from 1 to 20 watts. That's pretty cool. However, they don't seem to be selling very well and I wonder why? There's two people selling them on EBAY for the same price as Musician's Friend and they are giving the shipping for free. No one has bought any of these amps. This is at $595. What does a Night Train go for?

I can't wait for Josh to get the tubes so he can start to dial the ole 122 in. He went from having a few tubes to having a shitload. He's got a lot of new production tubes and some of them don't sound bad, but the NOS tubes handle higher plate voltage and I think they have much better definition when it comes to articulation and tone.

Hurry up, we're waiting on you Josh!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-26-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

I'm runnin' a new thread called, "How many amps do you need?" I think I am going to sell off all of my non-Marshall amps and get me a nice low watt boutique amp, say 10 to twenty watts. Man, there are a lot of nice ones out there. Hell, I'm still waiting to try out a Rebel. It has the choice of 6V6 or EL84 tubes, or a blend of the two and adjustable power from 1 to 20 watts. That's pretty cool. However, they don't seem to be selling very well and I wonder why? There's two people selling them on EBAY for the same price as Musician's Friend and they are giving the shipping for free. No one has bought any of these amps. This is at $595. What does a Night Train go for?

I can't wait for Josh to get the tubes so he can start to dial the ole 122 in. He went from having a few tubes to having a shitload. He's got a lot of new production tubes and some of them don't sound bad, but the NOS tubes handle higher plate voltage and I think they have much better definition when it comes to articulation and tone.

Hurry up, we're waiting on you Josh!

I know, I know. Come on Josh...he he. I've heard good clips of the Rebel. The reviews on it are really mixed though. Too much talk of it sounding thin. I had thought about getting one too. I don't know. From the clips I heard it sounded decent enough. It definitely offers more than others.

The Night Train is $500 shipped from online stores. Shameless plug for proguitars.com where I got mine. Check out the RM20 by Randall and the Laney LC15R 1X10(has speaker outs). Little more expensive but have a good following and good clips too.

Buy Randall MTS Series RM20 15W Guitar Amp Head without Modules | Tube Amp Heads | Musician's Friend

Buy Laney LC15R 15W 1x10 Tube Guitar Combo Amp | Tube Combo Amps | Musician's Friend

solarburnDSL50 · 05-26-2009, 08:34 PM

I forgot to mention on another side note that I emailed Jerry at FJA about making the NT's voicings foot switchable. Right now its toggle operated. I should hear from him in a couple of days. Its a new amp so I don't know if he will have anything figured out yet other than his working knowledge of how to do it.

Ok, I'll get back to tubes now...anybody send me an RFT 12AX7 yet?

MartyStrat54 · 05-26-2009, 08:36 PM

Good grief! The Randall is $1000! You have to buy the standard preamp tube module and that bumps it up to a grand. Sorry, no way.

If I get me a small all tube amp, it will have to be cathode biased so I can put different power tubes in it, plug and play all the way.

Marty

solarburnDSL50 · 05-26-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Good grief! The Randall is $1000! You have to buy the standard preamp tube module and that bumps it up to a grand. Sorry, no way.

If I get me a small all tube amp, it will have to be cathode biased so I can put different power tubes in it, plug and play all the way.

Marty

Oh yah...there is that. Its for the guys with plenty o money that want all the tone shaping one can get.

Ouch! Too many clams.

I'll keep plug & play(cathode biased)in mind too when I'm looking.

joshuaaewallen · 05-27-2009, 06:26 PM

Holy Hannah!!! I am up to my ears in tubes!!!

Marty, I just received the shipment of tubes, and am really psyched to run through them. My plan is to spend some quality time this weekend (hopefully sooner

) and really get a feel for what's what with all of these tubes. And boy-oh-boy... What a list!

1.RCA 7025, Test @ 23/23
2.LTT/RCA 7025, Test @ 24-26 (same gain as a 25/25)
3.GE 7025, Test @ 28/25
4.LTT/RCA 7025 @ 30/30
5.Westinghouse 12AX7, Test @ 26/27
6.Sylvania 12AX7, Test @ 28/28
7.RCA 12AX7, Test 29/29
8.Amperex 12AX7, Test @ 30/30

Marty, Marty, Marty... You are THE MAN! Now I'm really chompin' at the bit. I wish I had some vacation time to burn up. I'd become a hermit for a few days and have some serious fun with these. I'm sure that the TSL is gonna sound divine!

What's more... I got an email from The Tube Store today confirming they have received my faulty Yellow Jackets, so I should be seeing my new production tube order coming soon as well! Holy cow! I'll be swimming in tubes.

MartyStrat54 · 05-27-2009, 07:48 PM

Well I'm glad that you posted over here. I found out over at the YJ thread and left a response there.

Marty

MartyStrat54 · 05-27-2009, 07:51 PM

Copy of post from Yellow Jackets thread:

Oh? We're over here now are we? Well I'm glad you got the goods, but I'm afraid that it will take more than this weekend to perform the proper type of testing. Pay close attention to that Amperex. That is one sweet, high gain tube. Made in Holland by people who wear wooden shoes. That is like the Holy Grail of 12AX7's. Not trying to plug it, let your ears do the selecting. The 7025 selection is really sweet and the LTT/RCA's are NIB-NOS...very nice.

Have you decided on whether you want to go with NOS tubes for V3 and V4? Or are you going to use some of the new stuff you get? That is getting to be a lot of tubes to be messing with. I'm afraid you can get frustrated and this is something I brought up before. It's what caused me to put tubes in some of my amps based on brand and gain rating and not by "sound" selection. We all know that I ended up with a different line up in my 122 after doing a sound check. However, I am happy with what I have right now in my amps and it took a lot of time. Like I said, I got the formula down (for me) and that is a 7025 in V1 and a sweet gainer in V2.

My formula may not be to your liking and that's okay. I just hope that you are able to find a solid clean, but also good crunch as well.

Marty

joshuaaewallen · 05-27-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Oh? We're over here now are we? Well I'm glad you got the goods, but I'm afraid that it will take more than this weekend to perform the proper type of testing. Pay close attention to that Amperex. That is one sweet, high gain tube. Made in Holland by people who wear wooden shoes. That is like the Holy Grail of 12AX7's. Not trying to plug it, let your ears do the selecting. The 7025 selection is really sweet and the LTT/RCA's are NIB-NOS...very nice.

Have you decided on whether you want to go with NOS tubes for V3 and V4? Or are you going to use some of the new stuff you get? That is getting to be a lot of tubes to be messing with. I'm afraid you can get frustrated and this is something I brought up before. It's what caused me to put tubes in some of my amps based on brand and gain rating and not by "sound" selection. We all know that I ended up with a different line up in my 122 after doing a sound check. However, I am happy with what I have right now in my amps and it took a lot of time. Like I said, I got the formula down (for me) and that is a 7025 in V1 and a sweet gainer in V2.

My formula may not be to your liking and that's okay. I just hope that you are able to find a solid clean, but also good crunch as well.

Marty

"Over here..." Oops, my bad. I posted on the wrong thread.

These threads, while different, are sort of joined at the hip in some respects, aren't they?

Thanks again for sending the tubes Marty. I really appreciate it more than you know. I'd never get a shot at test driving most of these w/out a pal like you.

I'll try not to doddle too much, but you and Solar are probably right. To really feel these baby's out may take a while...

solarburnDSL50 · 05-27-2009, 07:59 PM

I got that post before over here. So I figured I'd leave it like it was since I didn't really say much.

I will say this though. What a Buffet of tubes! Don't forget to eat, ..it, shower and shave while you roll'n all those. Remember to say hi to the wife once in awhile too.

Side note: Marty tested that 5751 I sent him and he found it to be bad after all. I was so under whelmed with that tube. Didn't have any dynamics. Now we know why.

MartyStrat54 · 05-27-2009, 09:56 PM

Good thing about 5751's is that there is a glut of them and the prices are low. To be honest, I didn't realize how cheap they were selling for. I'm glad that I wasn't buying any on EBAY. I may buy me four or five to have around. Same with the 12AT7's.

I still can't get over that 12AX7 push-pull guitar amp. That is just too wild! I mean if you were to hook that up to a pair of Man O' War speakers, that would be 105db with one watt! Two watts would be 108 and 4 watts would be 111 and that would top it out maybe at 112 pushing all five watts. That's loud my friend...real frigging loud. I would love to try that little fugger out. I would love to see how it would respond to different AX7's. I mean it's one pre and one AX7. It don't get any simpler than that.

Well, I think you're right about Josh having a full platter. It may take him a while to digest all that he has received.

Marty

MartyStrat54 · 05-29-2009, 07:03 PM

Here for your enjoyment is the "TechTube" site. This is the remains of the former Blackburn Mullard factory and what they are doing today. They cannot use the Mullard name anymore (owned by New Sensor).

The nice thing about it is knowing that there is yet one more source for a "real" tube. I do not know who distributes them here in the US. If you find out, let me know. They are currently making 12AX7's, 12AU7's and 12AT7's. All premium high quality for audiophile use (my Marshall qualifies as an audiophile amp).

Oh yeah...the video of how they made tubes is on this site as well.

TechTube Valves - Blackburn MicroTech Solutions

Marty

steelhorse · 05-29-2009, 09:10 PM

ok that's cool but how would I go about purchasing a few tubes to try?

joshuaaewallen · 05-29-2009, 09:40 PM

Hey guys! How ya been? Just a madhouse around here. I haven't had jack squat time even to turn my amp on since my last post.

I'm starting to get cranky...

Sadly I will have little to no opportunity to run through any tube experimentation for probably another entire week. We have guests this weekend...

/

... And I am expected to be sociable. Then back to work on Monday and will probably wind up spending an couple of hours each night after work moving boxes in and out of my mother's storage locker (the house she's rented for the past 10 or so years is being foreclosed). Grand times, eh? But as much as I love me mum... I am glad she isn't moving in here! Then next weekend we have two weddings and various other social engagements to attend to. That being said, if I value a happy family life, playing around with my amp will have to take a back seat to these other things for a wee bit.

Anyhoo... I just wanted to say that I have been reading your posts, and they are keepin' me alive as I live out my Marshall tube driven fantasies in my mind.

I will as soon as is safely possible start my adventure of rolling tubes. As always, you guys are the best, and keep up the great posts.

Soooo... Until next time... See ya!!!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-29-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

ok that's cool but how would I go about purchasing a few tubes to try?

Count me in too. We need to find out.

MartyStrat54 · 05-29-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

ok that's cool but how would I go about purchasing a few tubes to try?

I'll try and locate a US retailer and I will post the info and send you a PM.

Marty

solarburnDSL50 · 05-29-2009, 10:37 PM

Hey Josh. Thanks for the update. Yeah life will do that to you huh...No worries man. We will just wait and in the mean time fondle our beloved tubes.

Have good times with the family man!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-29-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

I'll try and locate a US retailer and I will post the info and send you a PM.

Marty

MartyStrat54 · 05-29-2009, 10:39 PM

Well Josh, sometimes you just got to take care of the biz. Your mum is probably glad that she isn't moving in with you. I'm not in a hurry, I don't have a meter running. Take your time, it will happen.

Marty

MartyStrat54 · 05-29-2009, 11:19 PM

Manufacturer Area of expertise
Shuguang Electron Group Co. Primarily audio tubes, also some rare transmitting models (211, 805, 807, 813, 845 and 6146B). Tubes marketed by Shuguang, Valve Art, TAD, Ruby Tubes and Taylor Tubes brand names.
Tianjin Quanerzhen Electron Tube Technology Co. Very small manufacturer of high-end audio tubes.

Products marketed by Full Music and Sophia Electric brands.
Nanjing Sanle Electronics Co. Transmitting and industrial tubes.

Some models (3-500ZG & 4-400C) marketed by Taylor Tubes brand.
JiangXi Jingguang Electronics Co. Ceramic transmitting tubes, some of them marketed by Penta Laboratories.
Huaguang Electric Power & Electronics Co. Transmitting and industrial tubes, also Chinese made 833C.

Russia
Manufacturer Area of expertise
Ekspopul - New Sensor Inc. Audio tube factory of New Sensor Inc.; Tubes are marketed as Sovtek, Electro Harmonix, Tung-Sol, Mullard, Genalex Gold Lion and also Svetlana S-marked in USA.

Known formerly as tube factory of JSC Reflektor.
LLC "Ryazan" Vacuum Components Russian made SV811 and SV572 series tubes for audio applications and transmitting tubes like 811A, 572B and GU-81, marketed in western countries by Svetlana, Sovtek and Ryazan brands
ZAO "SED-SPb" Svetlana Electron Devices, St.Petersburg - JSC Svetlana "Winged-C" transmitting and audio tubes
M.V.S.Z. AO Svetlana Parent company of JSC Svetlana.

Manufacturer of "Winged-C" 300B and EL509 tubes. (Production can not be confirmed)
JSC "Voskhod" KRLZ Tubes for small signal RF and audio applications
HC JSC NEVZ-Soyuz Ceramic transmitting and microwave tubes, known as Novosibirsk Electro-Vacuum Plant - Soyuz

United States
Manufacturer Area of expertise
Western Electric Inc. 300B triodes
Communications & Power Industries Inc. Eimac and rebuilt Econco high power transmitting tubes
Burle Industries Inc. Industrial and transmitting tubes, formerly factory of RCA
MPD Components Inc. Planar triodes and magnetrons, formerly Ken-Rad and later GE tube factory
LND Inc. Geiger-Mueller tubes

United Kingdom
Manufacturer Area of expertise
Blackburn MicroTech Solutions Ltd. Small signal tubes, formerly part of Philips-Mullard Blackburn operations.

e2v Technologies Ltd. Transmitting tubes, formerly known as English Electric Valve Co. Ltd.
Centronic Ltd. Geiger-Mueller tubes, formerly Philips GM-tubes
TMD Technologies Ltd. Magnetrons, Klystrons, Travelling Wave Tubes, Transmitters formerly THORN Microwave Devices Ltd.}

Germany
Manufacturer Area of expertise
Vacutec GmbH. Geiger-Mueller tubes

France
Manufacturer Area of expertise
Covimag Transmitting tubes. Products marketed by Richardson Electronics with Amperex brand name.

Formerly Philips transmitting tube factory.
Thales Electron Devices High power transmitting tubes. Formerly known as Thomson-CSF.

Czech Republic
Manufacturer Area of expertise
Emission Labs High-end audio tubes
KR Audio Electronics s.r.o. High-end audio tubes
Tesla Electrontubes s.r.o. Transmitting tubes

Slovakia
Manufacturer Area of expertise
JJ-Electronic

Primarily for audio applications, factory was formerly part of Tesla Electrontubes
Euro Audio Team Very small manufacturer of high-end audio tubes, products marketed by EAT brand

Poland
Manufacturer Area of expertise
Thales Lamina Przyrzady Elektronowe Sp.Z.o.o Microwave tubes for radiolocation equipment, microwave tubes for industrial applications

Serbia
Manufacturer Area of expertise
EI Niš Amplifier and Radio Tubes

(Tube production ceased 2006)

joshuaaewallen · 05-30-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

... TechTube Valves - Blackburn MicroTech Solutions...

Thanks for the heads up on a great link Marty.

I sent an email to them to see if they will tell me who they retail their tubes through. I'll let ya know if & when I hear back from them.

firego · 05-30-2009, 08:45 AM

I would like to thank you Guys for solving my pwercel 100W problem a NOS Mullard
ECC82(12au7) in the V1 position, sounds great! Thanks agian Firegoblin.

05-20-2009, 10:34 PM	#362 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Yeah, just send the high gainer back and I will look through my vast selection of chocolates and select a few for you. I most certainly want to include a 7025 for you, because you have never used one of those in V1. Strong and quiet, that's what they are. They make the clean channel, well really clean. Now some of my 7025's are marked 12AX7A's, but they interchange just so you know. However, I will try and send you one that says 7025 on the tube. I'll top it off with three AX7's that are a couple of notches below the super gain tube. (Hey! I wonder how that high gain tube would sound in Joe's NT? Probably blow the front end off of his amp!) I should be able to get this in the mail by Friday. I'm busy on and off tomorrow and have an errand to run in KC. Well, I feel good that Joe is happy with his tone. I feel the same way about my 122. I think we are going to nail your sound down very soon. You can always use a new production tube in V3 and V4. (Remember the PI tube does not have to be balanced.) I've been going with a 22/24 in the PI and the same or higher for the tone stack. However V1 and V2 are still what I call high gain AX7's. Talk to you later. Marty

05-22-2009, 06:13 PM	#364 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Well I got four 7025's of varying gain and four 12AX7's of varying gain all packed and mailed off to Josh. I'm really hoping that he will be able to dial in his sound. The maximum gain available is 30/30 for V1 and 30/30 for V2, so that's a lot of gain. Maybe by late next week we will hear what the results are. Marty

05-22-2009, 10:01 PM	#365 (permalink)
joshuaaewallen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 372	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Suhweeeeeeeeet!!!! Thanks Mate! __________________ Josh 2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested) 1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122 - Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's - Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll... HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/ "... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

05-25-2009, 03:25 PM	#366 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I thought I would post to keep this thread from going down the tank. I had some private conversations with Joe and it was interesting. Joe is thinking about buying and RFT 12AX7. These are "EAST" German tubes that are very well built. Right up there with a Telefunken (West Germany), Amperex (Holland), or Mullard (Great Britain). Right now they are running at about $40 a piece. I put the xf4 Mullard 6CA7's (EL34's) in my amp about a week ago and I recheck the bias yesterday. I let the amp warm up about 30 minutes or so. The bias was still within range, but I tweaked it just a little. The Mullards improved the bottom end of the amp. They are very robust sounding. I swear that TSL60 gets as loud as my 122, but the 122 has the Man O' War speakers and they are loud and efficient...so it must be my imagination. I bought four new 12AX7 tubes, NOS for $10 a piece. Can you believe that? Sorry to say I let a pair get away from me and they only went for $31. They were a pair of Hammond by Amperex (Holland) 12AX7's. I'm sort of bummed for spacing that out. Those Amperex tubes are pretty sweet in V2 and V3. Well, I've been dicking around with all of my amps this weekend. Even my old Randall's and Peavey's. I forgot what a beast the Peavey MACE is. Six 6L6 power tubes. Solid state pre, but it nails a lot of the 70's and 80's tones. I think I need to sell some of this stuff. How many amps do you really need? My TSL60 can handle any gig and it is a good practice amp and then I could get a Night Train. So I guess the answer is two. More preamp tube related info to follow very soon. Marty

05-26-2009, 07:10 PM	#369 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I'm runnin' a new thread called, "How many amps do you need?" I think I am going to sell off all of my non-Marshall amps and get me a nice low watt boutique amp, say 10 to twenty watts. Man, there are a lot of nice ones out there. Hell, I'm still waiting to try out a Rebel. It has the choice of 6V6 or EL84 tubes, or a blend of the two and adjustable power from 1 to 20 watts. That's pretty cool. However, they don't seem to be selling very well and I wonder why? There's two people selling them on EBAY for the same price as Musician's Friend and they are giving the shipping for free. No one has bought any of these amps. This is at $595. What does a Night Train go for? I can't wait for Josh to get the tubes so he can start to dial the ole 122 in. He went from having a few tubes to having a shitload. He's got a lot of new production tubes and some of them don't sound bad, but the NOS tubes handle higher plate voltage and I think they have much better definition when it comes to articulation and tone. Hurry up, we're waiting on you Josh!

05-26-2009, 08:36 PM	#372 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Good grief! The Randall is $1000! You have to buy the standard preamp tube module and that bumps it up to a grand. Sorry, no way. If I get me a small all tube amp, it will have to be cathode biased so I can put different power tubes in it, plug and play all the way. Marty

05-27-2009, 06:26 PM	#374 (permalink)
joshuaaewallen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 372	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Holy Hannah!!! I am up to my ears in tubes!!! Marty, I just received the shipment of tubes, and am really psyched to run through them. My plan is to spend some quality time this weekend (hopefully sooner ) and really get a feel for what's what with all of these tubes. And boy-oh-boy... What a list! 1.RCA 7025, Test @ 23/23 2.LTT/RCA 7025, Test @ 24-26 (same gain as a 25/25) 3.GE 7025, Test @ 28/25 4.LTT/RCA 7025 @ 30/30 5.Westinghouse 12AX7, Test @ 26/27 6.Sylvania 12AX7, Test @ 28/28 7.RCA 12AX7, Test 29/29 8.Amperex 12AX7, Test @ 30/30 Marty, Marty, Marty... You are THE MAN! Now I'm really chompin' at the bit. I wish I had some vacation time to burn up. I'd become a hermit for a few days and have some serious fun with these. I'm sure that the TSL is gonna sound divine! What's more... I got an email from The Tube Store today confirming they have received my faulty Yellow Jackets, so I should be seeing my new production tube order coming soon as well! Holy cow! I'll be swimming in tubes. __________________ Josh 2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested) 1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122 - Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's - Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll... HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/ "... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

05-27-2009, 07:48 PM	#375 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Well I'm glad that you posted over here. I found out over at the YJ thread and left a response there. Marty

05-27-2009, 07:51 PM	#376 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Copy of post from Yellow Jackets thread: Oh? We're over here now are we? Well I'm glad you got the goods, but I'm afraid that it will take more than this weekend to perform the proper type of testing. Pay close attention to that Amperex. That is one sweet, high gain tube. Made in Holland by people who wear wooden shoes. That is like the Holy Grail of 12AX7's. Not trying to plug it, let your ears do the selecting. The 7025 selection is really sweet and the LTT/RCA's are NIB-NOS...very nice. Have you decided on whether you want to go with NOS tubes for V3 and V4? Or are you going to use some of the new stuff you get? That is getting to be a lot of tubes to be messing with. I'm afraid you can get frustrated and this is something I brought up before. It's what caused me to put tubes in some of my amps based on brand and gain rating and not by "sound" selection. We all know that I ended up with a different line up in my 122 after doing a sound check. However, I am happy with what I have right now in my amps and it took a lot of time. Like I said, I got the formula down (for me) and that is a 7025 in V1 and a sweet gainer in V2. My formula may not be to your liking and that's okay. I just hope that you are able to find a solid clean, but also good crunch as well. Marty

05-27-2009, 09:56 PM	#379 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Good thing about 5751's is that there is a glut of them and the prices are low. To be honest, I didn't realize how cheap they were selling for. I'm glad that I wasn't buying any on EBAY. I may buy me four or five to have around. Same with the 12AT7's. I still can't get over that 12AX7 push-pull guitar amp. That is just too wild! I mean if you were to hook that up to a pair of Man O' War speakers, that would be 105db with one watt! Two watts would be 108 and 4 watts would be 111 and that would top it out maybe at 112 pushing all five watts. That's loud my friend...real frigging loud. I would love to try that little fugger out. I would love to see how it would respond to different AX7's. I mean it's one pre and one AX7. It don't get any simpler than that. Well, I think you're right about Josh having a full platter. It may take him a while to digest all that he has received. Marty

05-29-2009, 07:03 PM	#380 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Here for your enjoyment is the "TechTube" site. This is the remains of the former Blackburn Mullard factory and what they are doing today. They cannot use the Mullard name anymore (owned by New Sensor). The nice thing about it is knowing that there is yet one more source for a "real" tube. I do not know who distributes them here in the US. If you find out, let me know. They are currently making 12AX7's, 12AU7's and 12AT7's. All premium high quality for audiophile use (my Marshall qualifies as an audiophile amp). Oh yeah...the video of how they made tubes is on this site as well. TechTube Valves - Blackburn MicroTech Solutions Marty

05-29-2009, 09:10 PM	#381 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,886	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? ok that's cool but how would I go about purchasing a few tubes to try? __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

05-29-2009, 09:40 PM	#382 (permalink)
joshuaaewallen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 372	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Hey guys! How ya been? Just a madhouse around here. I haven't had jack squat time even to turn my amp on since my last post. I'm starting to get cranky... Sadly I will have little to no opportunity to run through any tube experimentation for probably another entire week. We have guests this weekend... /... And I am expected to be sociable. Then back to work on Monday and will probably wind up spending an couple of hours each night after work moving boxes in and out of my mother's storage locker (the house she's rented for the past 10 or so years is being foreclosed). Grand times, eh? But as much as I love me mum... I am glad she isn't moving in here! Then next weekend we have two weddings and various other social engagements to attend to. That being said, if I value a happy family life, playing around with my amp will have to take a back seat to these other things for a wee bit. Anyhoo... I just wanted to say that I have been reading your posts, and they are keepin' me alive as I live out my Marshall tube driven fantasies in my mind. I will as soon as is safely possible start my adventure of rolling tubes. As always, you guys are the best, and keep up the great posts. Soooo... Until next time... See ya!!! __________________ Josh 2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested) 1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122 - Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's - Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll... HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/ "... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama Last edited by joshuaaewallen; 05-30-2009 at 08:37 AM.

05-29-2009, 10:39 PM	#387 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Well Josh, sometimes you just got to take care of the biz. Your mum is probably glad that she isn't moving in with you. I'm not in a hurry, I don't have a meter running. Take your time, it will happen. Marty

05-29-2009, 11:19 PM	#388 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Manufacturer Area of expertise Shuguang Electron Group Co. Primarily audio tubes, also some rare transmitting models (211, 805, 807, 813, 845 and 6146B). Tubes marketed by Shuguang, Valve Art, TAD, Ruby Tubes and Taylor Tubes brand names. Tianjin Quanerzhen Electron Tube Technology Co. Very small manufacturer of high-end audio tubes. Products marketed by Full Music and Sophia Electric brands. Nanjing Sanle Electronics Co. Transmitting and industrial tubes. Some models (3-500ZG & 4-400C) marketed by Taylor Tubes brand. JiangXi Jingguang Electronics Co. Ceramic transmitting tubes, some of them marketed by Penta Laboratories. Huaguang Electric Power & Electronics Co. Transmitting and industrial tubes, also Chinese made 833C. Russia Manufacturer Area of expertise Ekspopul - New Sensor Inc. Audio tube factory of New Sensor Inc.; Tubes are marketed as Sovtek, Electro Harmonix, Tung-Sol, Mullard, Genalex Gold Lion and also Svetlana S-marked in USA. Known formerly as tube factory of JSC Reflektor. LLC "Ryazan" Vacuum Components Russian made SV811 and SV572 series tubes for audio applications and transmitting tubes like 811A, 572B and GU-81, marketed in western countries by Svetlana, Sovtek and Ryazan brands ZAO "SED-SPb" Svetlana Electron Devices, St.Petersburg - JSC Svetlana "Winged-C" transmitting and audio tubes M.V.S.Z. AO Svetlana Parent company of JSC Svetlana. Manufacturer of "Winged-C" 300B and EL509 tubes. (Production can not be confirmed) JSC "Voskhod" KRLZ Tubes for small signal RF and audio applications HC JSC NEVZ-Soyuz Ceramic transmitting and microwave tubes, known as Novosibirsk Electro-Vacuum Plant - Soyuz United States Manufacturer Area of expertise Western Electric Inc. 300B triodes Communications & Power Industries Inc. Eimac and rebuilt Econco high power transmitting tubes Burle Industries Inc. Industrial and transmitting tubes, formerly factory of RCA MPD Components Inc. Planar triodes and magnetrons, formerly Ken-Rad and later GE tube factory LND Inc. Geiger-Mueller tubes United Kingdom Manufacturer Area of expertise Blackburn MicroTech Solutions Ltd. Small signal tubes, formerly part of Philips-Mullard Blackburn operations. e2v Technologies Ltd. Transmitting tubes, formerly known as English Electric Valve Co. Ltd. Centronic Ltd. Geiger-Mueller tubes, formerly Philips GM-tubes TMD Technologies Ltd. Magnetrons, Klystrons, Travelling Wave Tubes, Transmitters formerly THORN Microwave Devices Ltd.} Germany Manufacturer Area of expertise Vacutec GmbH. Geiger-Mueller tubes France Manufacturer Area of expertise Covimag Transmitting tubes. Products marketed by Richardson Electronics with Amperex brand name. Formerly Philips transmitting tube factory. Thales Electron Devices High power transmitting tubes. Formerly known as Thomson-CSF. Czech Republic Manufacturer Area of expertise Emission Labs High-end audio tubes KR Audio Electronics s.r.o. High-end audio tubes Tesla Electrontubes s.r.o. Transmitting tubes Slovakia Manufacturer Area of expertise JJ-Electronic Primarily for audio applications, factory was formerly part of Tesla Electrontubes Euro Audio Team Very small manufacturer of high-end audio tubes, products marketed by EAT brand Poland Manufacturer Area of expertise Thales Lamina Przyrzady Elektronowe Sp.Z.o.o Microwave tubes for radiolocation equipment, microwave tubes for industrial applications Serbia Manufacturer Area of expertise EI Niš Amplifier and Radio Tubes (Tube production ceased 2006)

05-30-2009, 08:45 AM	#390 (permalink)
firego Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 11	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I would like to thank you Guys for solving my pwercel 100W problem a NOS Mullard ECC82(12au7) in the V1 position, sounds great! Thanks agian Firegoblin.

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