Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 12

steelhorse · 05-19-2009, 02:47 PM

What exactly is harmonic content Josh?

Just kidding!

I'm sending someone over from another thread to ask about taming his JMP. Thanks!

MartyStrat54 · 05-19-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

marty, you nailed it to the head!

now, i've only got the manufacturer to choose. josh, when you said that jj preamp tubes, basically, suck, did you mean specifically 12ax7 or their preamp tubes in general. if that's the case, should i be looking for something in the line of this?

anyway, on my Quest for the Tubes i contacted eurotubes, and here's an interesting thing the guy named eddie said about kt77s...

...which i'm not sure i like, since the amp is currently, with poor lamps, a bit much too bright for my tastes. i can't know will these new tubes make it brighter or less bright. okay, that's what the treble and presence pots are for, to reduce the brightness, but how can i be sure i won't annoy bats even with the values reduced to zero? i mean, they can't be *that* bright, right? should i twack the infamous bright cap? am i going off topic?

yelp.

I think the guy was pushing to make a sale and thought you would dig what he had to say. KT's are cleaner (less gritty) than an EL34. He was just adding the mustard and the pickles and thought you would bite. Now I will say that there are some very different sounding EL34's out there. Take a look at these:

Tung-Sol EL34B

Mullard EL34

Winged "C" (SED) EL34

Read the full reviews on these and maybe you will want to stay with an EL34. You can Google the Tube Store or the Tube Depot and check prices, read reviews on preamp tubes and hopefully you will be able to find what it is you are looking for.

FYI-You can get a smokin' 5751 at the Tube Store for about $20. Go to:

JAN-Philips 5751

The 12AT7 link is: JAN-Philips 12AT7WC

That should get you going in the right direction. Marty

solarburnDSL50 · 05-19-2009, 04:00 PM

Marty, I'm going to send you that 5751 I have when I ship your's back. I'm really not going to use it cause I like the AT7's better as far as bringing things down a little and adding articulation.

I think my next set of power tubes will be some Winged C's. I just hear too many good things about them from other Marshall owner/players.

Here is another awesome performing AT7:

http://thetubestore.com/mul12atcv.html

zimske · 05-19-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

I think the guy was pushing to make a sale and thought you would dig what he had to say. KT's are cleaner (less gritty) than an EL34. He was just adding the mustard and the pickles and thought you would bite.

yeah, something was fishy about him to begin with. i'm sure if i'd said i want bassles poweramp tubes with muddy mids that resemble green ketchup he'd confirm this as well. theh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Now I will say that there are some very different sounding EL34's out there. Take a look at these:

Tung-Sol EL34B

Mullard EL34

Winged "C" (SED) EL34

Read the full reviews on these and maybe you will want to stay with an EL34. You can Google the Tube Store or the Tube Depot and check prices, read reviews on preamp tubes and hopefully you will be able to find what it is you are looking for.

dammit, i finally narrow down my poweramp tubes choice and what do you do? come *ON*!

will do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

FYI-You can get a smokin' 5751 at the Tube Store for about $20. Go to:

JAN-Philips 5751

The 12AT7 link is: JAN-Philips 12AT7WC

That should get you going in the right direction. Marty

whoa. thanks! will check them out.
which of the two from this site correspond to the one you're mentioning? both? neither?

zimske · 05-19-2009, 05:32 PM

okay! choices revised!

for power amp it'll be tung-sols because i've read somewhere that it tames much too bright marshalls well. my is a bit too bright and needs to be tamed. so be it!

back to preamp!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-19-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

okay! choices revised!

for power amp it'll be tung-sols because i've read somewhere that it tames much too bright marshalls well. my is a bit too bright and needs to be tamed. so be it!

back to preamp!

I buy tubes at Doug's as well. I'm sure you have already noted you can get those tubes there.

V1- AT7
V2- Mullard Reissue

MartyStrat54 · 05-19-2009, 09:27 PM

Doug's Tubes, The Tube Store and The Tube Depot all have great prices and excellent customer service.

I thought that you would notice the part about the EL34 that tames the mids on Marshall amps. Keen eye! And you said you were a noob.

Marty

zimske · 05-20-2009, 03:27 AM

hahahh, yeah...

in any case, i've decided to cut this preamp gordian knot thing to pieces. i'm gonna get me, now get this, BOTH some 12at7 and some 12ax7 for V1 and see what fits me best. i'ma gonna be a tube rolla.

i'm waiting for the guys from dougs tubes to answer to my mail, and see what next.

in any case, guys, i'd like your opinions, on what to put in V1-3 for both low gain and normal gain option..

low gain combo would be something like JJ Ecc803 and those JAN Philips 12AT7 Blackplate in combination.

normal gain combo, well, f#%k, gotta go through this thread again

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

hahahh, yeah...

in any case, i've decided to cut this preamp gordian knot thing to pieces. i'm gonna get me, now get this, BOTH some 12at7 and some 12ax7 for V1 and see what fits me best. i'ma gonna be a tube rolla.

i'm waiting for the guys from dougs tubes to answer to my mail, and see what next.

in any case, guys, i'd like your opinions, on what to put in V1-3 for both low gain and normal gain option..

low gain combo would be something like JJ Ecc803 and those JAN Philips 12AT7 Blackplate in combination.

normal gain combo, well, f#%k, gotta go through this thread again

Low gain:
V1-At7
V2-Mullard RI
PI- AC5

Lower Gain:
V1- At7
V2- 5751
PI- Mullard RI

Normal Gain:
V1=Mullard RI
V2- AC5
PI- Mullard RI

Of course do what you want. These are only my suggestions with tubes I've used in my amps.

zimske · 05-20-2009, 04:29 AM

much appreciated solarburn, while you were typing the post, i've come up exactly the same like your second proposal for lower gain. (is that lower as in even lower than low or just lower than normal? ;D)

but i presume i'll go nuts pretty soon and order the entire pack of tungsols or mullards for the preamp and leave it at that. there's nothing wrong with normal gain marshall god dammit!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

much appreciated solarburn, while you were typing the post, i've come up exactly the same like your second proposal for lower gain. (is that lower as in even lower than low or just lower than normal? ;D)

but i presume i'll go nuts pretty soon and order the entire pack of tungsols or mullards for the preamp and leave it at that. there's nothing wrong with normal gain marshall god dammit!

The second option meant lower than the first option. I'll give you one with Tung Sols and Mullards:

V1-Tung Sol
V2-Mullard RI
PI-LPS or Mullard RI

zimske · 05-20-2009, 05:36 AM

any particular reason soundwise for this choice?

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

any particular reason soundwise for this choice?

The Tung Sol is big, warm, and musical. The Mullard is smooth. I like the LPS in the PI position. The LPS is the only Sovtec I will use. Smooth and well balanced. The other Sovtec's are not for me and a step down for sure in my experience. Anyways don't you want to try and tame some topend in your amp. These preamp tubes may help over brightness.

A Mullard in the PI was solid as well. Like the LPS it didn't take away or seem to add to what V1 & V2 are giving the amp in any bad way that I can detect with my ears.

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 03:01 PM

I have been wanting to add some different tubes to my stable for experimentation, so when dealing w/ The Tube Store on my faulty Yellow Jackets, they were agreeable to just exchanging them for tubes of my choosing. And since the YJ money has long since been spent and I don't miss it... And I'd likely be spending any refund on tubes and guitar stuff anyway... I figured let's go for it! Here's what I picked out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

...
- (Qty 2) Mullard 12AX7 / ECC83 Mullard 12AX7 / ECC83
- (Qty 2) Tung-Sol 12AX7 Tung-Sol 12AX7
- (Qty 2) Electro-Harmonix 12AX7-EH Electro-Harmonix 12AX7-EH
- (Qty 1) Tung-Sol 12AX7 / ECC803-S Gold Tung-Sol 12AX7 / ECC803-S Gold

Far out, eh?...

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

Hey Marty... I have played with it just a wee bit. However I got sidetracked by the Yellow Jacket debacle. So far all I can say is Holy Crap Batman! This thing is ready to blow the roof off my house! I am blown away by the gain on tap. Almost literally. You sure hit that one outta the ball park.

...

Don't worry there will be more later. I will issue a full report when I am not inebriated with drowsiness. Until then, take care and rest assured that you have one majorly satisfied customer, Plain and simple... You Rock!...

Hey Marty,

I finally got to spend a few hours noodling around (no... not diving for catfish...

) with that bottle rocket you sent me.

I honestly have to say... I think I have mixed emotions about it. The gain is off the charts hot. That I like. But I am having trouble finding a good position for it. It seems like it's sooo hot that wherever I put it (I've tried V1, V2, and V3) my treble is too harsh. Know what I mean? At the amps quietest bedroom level, it helps the amp alot in terms of sounding lively, but when I creep the volume up... The high end takes my head off. When I use pinch harmonics, they sound screechy and shrill, not harmonic. It has a great bottom end that probably would apeal to the 7-string crowd. It think it'd probably be a great "Death Metal" tube. Does this make sense? Anyhoo mate, don't take this as a bad review because it's not. I just need to figure out how to implement this ICBM-2 w/out causing "Global Destruction".

Along that line of thinking...

I tried something new. Sort of an extreme version of Solar's "take-it-down a notch" type of tube selection, only I took it down about 15 notches... I kept the ICBM-2 (since you had the original ICBM I guess I'll call this one the ICBM-2) in V2, but I threw the 12AU7 that I got out that old TV set into V1. Interesting... Interesting... Interesting... It did a great job of neutering the gain. My clean channel was interesting. Very subdued. Not brittle, but very, very clean. The crunch channel ranged from "a second clean channel" to crunchy at best. And the Lead channel went from another clean channel to the verge of "heavy" crunch. Did I say interesting? Anyhoo... I like my gain so this wasn't a keeper lineup, but was fun.

Now, what was more fun was what I tried next. I had the ICBM-2 in V1, and the the 12BZ7 in V2 (you can only imagine how hot that combo is)... So... To try to tame it and create new eq possibilities, I threw the 12AU7 into V3. This was much more likable. Think Def Leppard's "High 'N Dry" album, and songs like "Saturday Night (High & Dry)" and "Let It Go". This set up was much more fun. But not enough overall gain on Lead for most of the stuff I play so still not a permanent keeper, but interesting and fun and a definite option if I want to nail certain sounds. But the eq'ing this tube allowed in V3 was helpful in taming the ICBM-2's shrillness. I was able to do respectable harmonics when playing "God's of War" off Def Leppard's Hysteria album. The definite downside of the 12AU7, in this amp, is that it takes away the "fullness" of the sound that is inherent in the amp. So... Not a keeper, but fun. It may be useful in another amp, just not a high gain Marshall.

So... There's my two cents. What are your thoughts Oh, Mighty Oz?

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

The Tung Sol is big, warm, and musical. The Mullard is smooth. I like the LPS in the PI position. The LPS is the only Sovtec I will use. Smooth and well balanced. The other Sovtec's are not for me and a step down for sure in my experience. Anyways don't you want to try and tame some topend in your amp. These preamp tubes may help over brightness.

A Mullard in the PI was solid as well. Like the LPS it didn't take away or seem to add to what V1 & V2 are giving the amp in any bad way that I can detect with my ears.

Didn't get a LPS simply because I'm running a combo amp...

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

What exactly is harmonic content Josh?

Just kidding!...

That's like trying to describe the color green to a person who's been blind since birth!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

Didn't get a LPS simply because I'm running a combo amp...

Good call. Glad you noticed that.

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 03:30 PM

Josh check this page out at the Tube store. This is a gain factor list of some direct replacement preamp tubes for a 12AX7. See how low the 12AU7 is. I think that is too much neutering. I prolly wouldn't go any lower than a AT7. I'm finding also that the 5751 was a tad hot even though it is a 70.

These lower gain numbers don't always translate to significant gain changes. It depends on the position too. Still I would stay 60 and up but you know sometimes you just got to put the tube in to see how it performs in your amp like you did. This thread is about experimentation and letting each other know the results after all.

Guitar amp tweak - change the gain factor of your pre-amp

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 03:32 PM

It could be a long road... I've spent most of my years playing guitar chasing other peoples tones... Now that I'm rolling tubes... I'm gradually discovering my tone.

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

Josh check this page out at the Tube store. This is a gain factor list of some direct replacement preamp tubes for a 12AX7. See how low the 12AU7 is. I think that is too much neutering. I prolly wouldn't go any lower than a AT7....

... These lower gain numbers don't always translate to significant gain changes. It depends on the position too. Still I would stay 60 and up but you know sometimes you just got to put the tube in to see how it performs in your amp like you did. This thread is about experimentation and letting each other know the results after all.

Guitar amp tweak - change the gain factor of your pre-amp

Yup. The Tube Store is a great info resource. And yup... I'd have to agree that the 12AU7 was way too much neutering. It didn't just snip the berries, but took the whole twig too!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

It could be a long road... I've spent most of my years playing guitar chasing other peoples tones... Now that I'm rolling tubes... I'm gradually discovering my tone.

And isn't fun?! I mean as long as you moderate or pace yourself.

I can honestly say my tone has improved with the info, suggestions and tubes given for demoing from this thread. I have made some fast friends here that I look forward to talking to about tone and how to get it. I enjoy helping where I can and hopefully I don't get too much of a sandy vagina when I'm discussing here.

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

Yup. The Tube Store is a great info resource. And yup... I'd have to agree that the 12AU7 was way too much neutering. It didn't just snip the berries, but took the whole twig too!

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

Josh check this page out at the Tube store. This is a gain factor list of some direct replacement preamp tubes for a 12AX7. See how low the 12AU7 is. I think that is too much neutering. I prolly wouldn't go any lower than a AT7. I'm finding also that the 5751 was a tad hot even though it is a 70.

These lower gain numbers don't always translate to significant gain changes. It depends on the position too. Still I would stay 60 and up but you know sometimes you just got to put the tube in to see how it performs in your amp like you did. This thread is about experimentation and letting each other know the results after all.

Guitar amp tweak - change the gain factor of your pre-amp

I looked at this chart + the reviews + this thread when selecting my tubes. I was uber close to trying a 5751, but in the end elected to try the Tung Sol Gold pin instead...

The Mullards were a no brainer for me because even guys that are NOS worshipers tend to give them high marks.

Either way, I am exited to try them all out. Perhaps I may spring for that 5751 too. I want to try your method (granted the DSL50 and the TSL122 are two totally different beats) at some point because until I try it I'll never know what I might be missing. I really am that guy who wants to try everything!!!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

I looked at this chart + the reviews + this thread when selecting my tubes. I was uber close to trying a 5751, but in the end elected to try the Tung Sol Gold pin instead...

The Mullards were a no brainer for me because even guys that are NOS worshipers tend to give them high marks.

Either way, I am exited to try them all out. Perhaps I may spring for that 5751 too. I want to try your method (granted the DSL50 and the TSL122 are two totally different beats) at some point because until I try it I'll never know what I might be missing. I really am that guy who wants to try everything!!!

I just sent Marty a 5751 I had no use for. I wish I would have known you were looking at them cause I would have given it to you. It was a Jan too. He let me try a NOS Tung Sol 5751 that was just as hot, to my ears, as a 12AX7. So it didn't pay off for me but the tube was an animal for a 5751. That's frigg'n cool in my book!

Try the AT7 in V1 and just move it from there and see what happens. I liked it best in V1 on the DSL50. Jerry(FJA)thought I was weird using it there because most will put the AT7 in the PI on high gainers. It worked well there too but it didn't do what I was after as it did in V1.

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

I just sent Marty a 5751 I had no use for. I wish I would have known you were looking at them cause I would have given it to you. It was a Jan too...

Eh. How could ya know? All I ever post about is high gain stuff. It's only recently that I tried mixing high gain and low gain tubes to find that there is some potential there too. With what I have, and what I have coming... I'll probably have my hands full for a while anyways... But the 5751 IS ON MY LIST to try!

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

... I can honestly say my tone has improved with the info, suggestions and tubes given for demoing from this thread...

I agree totally. But the more I try and the more I learn... The more I find that the tone I've been chasing is not mine, and it's time to find my own sound.

MartyStrat54 · 05-20-2009, 04:32 PM

Boy, we have some regular chatterboxes going on in here, don't we? I think the best thing to do is cut the ICBM2 in half. That would cut the gain in half and it would take a lot of the "top end" off.

Well, the situation is this. You have two, really hot and high gain tubes in V1 and V2. I stated a long time ago that I never knew anyone that used two BZ7's in their amps. The ICBM2 and the BZ7 are in reality two BZ7's, because the gain factor of the ICBM2 meets or exceeds that of the BZ7 "when placed in a resistive circuit."

One of the solutions has been discussed here and that would be to keep one high gainer in V2 and use a 5751 or AT7 in V1. This will smooth out the overall gain, but you might not like the overall "window of tone" that a lower gain tube provides.

Another solution would be that you return the ICBM2 and I will send you one that is lower in gain, say a 27/27. That would allow a regular AX7 in V1 and then the 27/27 tube in V2. I wish there was a way I could bring over a box of 100 tubes and we could go through your divorce together and job loss while trying all the possibilities out...but that ain't gonna happen. I gave you some options and you went with the biggest boob job. As your doctor, I probably should have steered you into C cups instead of letting you option for the DD's. I have plenty of tubes, I could send you some to try out and then you could send the one's back that you don't want, but the postage would be your responsibility. (Hell, Joe is sending all my tubes back except for the 1967 Ruskie EL84's that he fell in love with. You know, the one's that looked like the tubes that came with your YJ's?)

In closing, sometimes there can be too much gain and on a Marshall amp, that usually results in high end shrill or harshness. There is a limit to what the circuits will take. High gain preamp tubes will overdrive the the rest of the amp, so that when you go to three, the power tubes are thinking 7. My advice is to go with a lower gain AX7. You are a high gain player. The songs and artists you play are high gain. I don't think you will find your sound with an AT7 or a 5751 in V1. Maybe a 5751, but I doubt it. You may end up having to dump the BZ7 as well. I think you would be happy with what I have in my 122 and that is a 7025 in V1 and a 27/27 to 30/30 AX7 in V2.

Let me know what you want to do. I can send you a 7025 and say 3, AX7's for you to work with. I could give you a couple of weeks to experiment. It would probably be a good idea to put some insurance on the package like I did with Joe. It's not that much and it gives a little peace of mind.

Marty

solarburnDSL50 · 05-20-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Boy, we have some regular chatterboxes going on in here, don't we? I think the best thing to do is cut the ICBM2 in half. That would cut the gain in half and it would take a lot of the "top end" off.

Well, the situation is this. You have two, really hot and high gain tubes in V1 and V2. I stated a long time ago that I never knew anyone that used two BZ7's in their amps. The ICBM2 and the BZ7 are in reality two BZ7's, because the gain factor of the ICBM2 meets or exceeds that of the BZ7 "when placed in a resistive circuit."

One of the solutions has been discussed here and that would be to keep one high gainer in V2 and use a 5751 or AT7 in V1. This will smooth out the overall gain, but you might not like the overall "window of tone" that a lower gain tube provides.

Another solution would be that you return the ICBM2 and I will send you one that is lower in gain, say a 27/27. That would allow a regular AX7 in V1 and then the 27/27 tube in V2. I wish there was a way I could bring over a box of 100 tubes and we could go through your divorce together and job loss while trying all the possibilities out...but that ain't gonna happen. I gave you some options and you went with the biggest boob job. As your doctor, I probably should have steered you into C cups instead of letting you option for the DD's. I have plenty of tubes, I could send you some to try out and then you could send the one's back that you don't want, but the postage would be your responsibility. (Hell, Joe is sending all my tubes back except for the 1967 Ruskie EL84's that he fell in love with. You know, the one's that looked like the tubes that came with your YJ's?)

In closing, sometimes there can be too much gain and on a Marshall amp, that usually results in high end shrill or harshness. There is a limit to what the circuits will take. High gain preamp tubes will overdrive the the rest of the amp, so that when you go to three, the power tubes are thinking 7. My advice is to go with a lower gain AX7. You are a high gain player. The songs and artists you play are high gain. I don't think you will find your sound with an AT7 or a 5751 in V1. Maybe a 5751, but I doubt it. You may end up having to dump the BZ7 as well. I think you would be happy with what I have in my 122 and that is a 7025 in V1 and a 27/27 to 30/30 AX7 in V2.

Let me know what you want to do. I can send you a 7025 and say 3, AX7's for you to work with. I could give you a couple of weeks to experiment. It would probably be a good idea to put some insurance on the package like I did with Joe. It's not that much and it gives a little peace of mind.

Marty

I loved your boob analogy...maybe too much but none the less it was funny.

Yeah you know on my Marshall I settled for a different line up than I had. Those NOS had some textures I like. What is nice is I have alternative line ups to go to when I want. There are a few go to combination's as far as the new production goes and I like certain tone characteristics but they are very similar cause after all I play and sound a certain way. I have an inherent Joe-ness to my playing that no tube changes.

Josh I've been playing long enough to stick with tones I like and think work for whatever I'm playing. Any gear changes = variables changing and sometimes redialing is needed to get there again. I still can learn new tricks though and guys like Marty help me dial in what I'm after. He's a seasoned guy and a wealth of info. Also I've never really used NOS so I am in new territory there. I'm having fun and expenses haven't gotten out of hand...yet.

Your ideal tone is going to get there too. I want to know what combo you end up with. I find it very interesting and enjoy the dialing in process. Sometimes more than actually finding I'm there. Which is where I'm at with the NT. Well, the Marshall too. Now I'll get back to getting some tunes down. I've got 3 to do so now you will have to keep us entertained with the roll'n he he.

Of course I will be consulting with my Doctor as well in the mean time...

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Boy, we have some regular chatterboxes going on in here, don't we? I think the best thing to do is cut the ICBM2 in half. That would cut the gain in half and it would take a lot of the "top end" off.

LOL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

... Well, the situation is this. You have two, really hot and high gain tubes in V1 and V2. I stated a long time ago that I never knew anyone that used two BZ7's in their amps. The ICBM2 and the BZ7 are in reality two BZ7's, because the gain factor of the ICBM2 meets or exceeds that of the BZ7 "when placed in a resistive circuit."

I understand why now. Although for short periods of time... For super HEAVY playing... The "dueling missiles" is a real "blast".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

One of the solutions has been discussed here and that would be to keep one high gainer in V2 and use a 5751 or AT7 in V1. This will smooth out the overall gain, but you might not like the overall "window of tone" that a lower gain tube provides.

At some point I know for sure that I will want to try out a 5751, but I think at this point I'll hold off on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

... I wish there was a way I could bring over a box of 100 tubes and we could go through your divorce together and job loss while trying all the possibilities out...but that ain't gonna happen. I gave you some options and you went with the biggest boob job. As your doctor, I probably should have steered you into C cups instead of letting you option for the DD's...

My wife thanks you for being half a country away.

... And she's a real swell gal, so I figure I really should hang on to her!

But seriously... I do, by way of personality, tend to start off like a rocket cranking everything to the max just to see what happens before I inevitably dial everything back to reasonable levels. It's a fault I have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

... My advice is to go with a lower gain AX7. You are a high gain player. The songs and artists you play are high gain. I don't think you will find your sound with an AT7 or a 5751 in V1. Maybe a 5751, but I doubt it. You may end up having to dump the BZ7 as well. I think you would be happy with what I have in my 122 and that is a 7025 in V1 and a 27/27 to 30/30 AX7 in V2.

This option seems more realistic. I think I'd like to go this route. If that does the trick I might only need to narrow down a tube for the tone-stack that suits my playing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

... Let me know what you want to do. I can send you a 7025 and say 3, AX7's for you to work with. I could give you a couple of weeks to experiment. It would probably be a good idea to put some insurance on the package like I did with Joe. It's not that much and it gives a little peace of mind.

Marty

That sounds like a plan. Lets do it. If I return the ICBM-2 Then I've got some credit with you... And we can just figure out how far that'll take me with the one/one's that I want to keep... Work for you mate?

joshuaaewallen · 05-20-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

Yup. The Tube Store is a great info resource. And yup... I'd have to agree that the 12AU7 was way too much neutering. It didn't just snip the berries, but took the whole twig too!

... Plus it was just too fun to plug in a tube that I found in somebody's old garage-sale junk for about as much $$$ as you'd spend on a happy meal!

05-19-2009, 02:47 PM	#331 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,886	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? What exactly is harmonic content Josh? Just kidding! I'm sending someone over from another thread to ask about taming his JMP. Thanks! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

05-19-2009, 05:32 PM	#335 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? okay! choices revised! for power amp it'll be tung-sols because i've read somewhere that it tames much too bright marshalls well. my is a bit too bright and needs to be tamed. so be it! back to preamp!

05-19-2009, 09:27 PM	#337 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Doug's Tubes, The Tube Store and The Tube Depot all have great prices and excellent customer service. I thought that you would notice the part about the EL34 that tames the mids on Marshall amps. Keen eye! And you said you were a noob. Marty

05-20-2009, 03:27 AM	#338 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? hahahh, yeah... in any case, i've decided to cut this preamp gordian knot thing to pieces. i'm gonna get me, now get this, BOTH some 12at7 and some 12ax7 for V1 and see what fits me best. i'ma gonna be a tube rolla. i'm waiting for the guys from dougs tubes to answer to my mail, and see what next. in any case, guys, i'd like your opinions, on what to put in V1-3 for both low gain and normal gain option.. low gain combo would be something like JJ Ecc803 and those JAN Philips 12AT7 Blackplate in combination. normal gain combo, well, f#%k, gotta go through this thread again

05-20-2009, 04:29 AM	#340 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? much appreciated solarburn, while you were typing the post, i've come up exactly the same like your second proposal for lower gain. (is that lower as in even lower than low or just lower than normal? ;D) but i presume i'll go nuts pretty soon and order the entire pack of tungsols or mullards for the preamp and leave it at that. there's nothing wrong with normal gain marshall god dammit!

05-20-2009, 05:36 AM	#342 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? any particular reason soundwise for this choice?

05-20-2009, 03:32 PM	#349 (permalink)
joshuaaewallen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 372	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? It could be a long road... I've spent most of my years playing guitar chasing other peoples tones... Now that I'm rolling tubes... I'm gradually discovering my tone. __________________ Josh 2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested) 1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122 - Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's - Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll... HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/ "... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

05-20-2009, 04:32 PM	#357 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Boy, we have some regular chatterboxes going on in here, don't we? I think the best thing to do is cut the ICBM2 in half. That would cut the gain in half and it would take a lot of the "top end" off. Well, the situation is this. You have two, really hot and high gain tubes in V1 and V2. I stated a long time ago that I never knew anyone that used two BZ7's in their amps. The ICBM2 and the BZ7 are in reality two BZ7's, because the gain factor of the ICBM2 meets or exceeds that of the BZ7 "when placed in a resistive circuit." One of the solutions has been discussed here and that would be to keep one high gainer in V2 and use a 5751 or AT7 in V1. This will smooth out the overall gain, but you might not like the overall "window of tone" that a lower gain tube provides. Another solution would be that you return the ICBM2 and I will send you one that is lower in gain, say a 27/27. That would allow a regular AX7 in V1 and then the 27/27 tube in V2. I wish there was a way I could bring over a box of 100 tubes and we could go through your divorce together and job loss while trying all the possibilities out...but that ain't gonna happen. I gave you some options and you went with the biggest boob job. As your doctor, I probably should have steered you into C cups instead of letting you option for the DD's. I have plenty of tubes, I could send you some to try out and then you could send the one's back that you don't want, but the postage would be your responsibility. (Hell, Joe is sending all my tubes back except for the 1967 Ruskie EL84's that he fell in love with. You know, the one's that looked like the tubes that came with your YJ's?) In closing, sometimes there can be too much gain and on a Marshall amp, that usually results in high end shrill or harshness. There is a limit to what the circuits will take. High gain preamp tubes will overdrive the the rest of the amp, so that when you go to three, the power tubes are thinking 7. My advice is to go with a lower gain AX7. You are a high gain player. The songs and artists you play are high gain. I don't think you will find your sound with an AT7 or a 5751 in V1. Maybe a 5751, but I doubt it. You may end up having to dump the BZ7 as well. I think you would be happy with what I have in my 122 and that is a 7025 in V1 and a 27/27 to 30/30 AX7 in V2. Let me know what you want to do. I can send you a 7025 and say 3, AX7's for you to work with. I could give you a couple of weeks to experiment. It would probably be a good idea to put some insurance on the package like I did with Joe. It's not that much and it gives a little peace of mind. Marty

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