Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? - Page 11

solarburnDSL50 · 05-15-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

It was a simple question. I asked how do you know they are actually NIB or NOS?

In fact I don't think the question was even directed to you.

You took it upon yourself to push my query aside like I don't know a thing about tone and tubes.

I re-directed the question and wanted to understand the logic of spending this kind of $ on essentially middle of the road gear.

Why not just either get the amp that already sounds the way you want it to or spend the money to get it modded to do the same thing?

But all it is imo.

I answered your question. You just didn't get or like my approach. I didn't push your query aside and it never entered my mind I was talking to you as if you knew nothing about tubes or tone. Now it sounds like I disturbed you. You respond to posts not directed to you? Me too. Its a forum. Up for grabs.

Why don't you just feel better about you not having to waste all that money on mods and tube chasing and be done with it. You are already convinced it isn't necessary. Your tone is fine the way it is. Got it. What if you can't prove the tubes are NIB or NOS? Then what? Why do others even do it then? Are their results even real or is it in their heads?

We're talking about using NOS tubes and some of us spend money on mods because we can. To get better tone out of that particular amp. Yeah it worked for me. So do the tubes. These things aren't necessary. I don't have better tone than others. I believe I have better tone than I had though and I have a more durable amp. Can you believe I wasted money on that? I should have just bought an amp that sounded like a modded DSL50 in the first place.

I bet you've got more gear and spent more money on it than me. Why? Chasing tone? Taste for something different? Needed something else? Cause you can?

You're not into NOS tubes. You don't buy them. You don't need them. We find it worth while to improve the amps we have.

solarburnDSL50 · 05-15-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

The primary difference is new tubes are warrantied and like I said this isn't bash and I mean that, it's puzzling that so much is invested in these things.

Far as I can tell you and a few others here are serious hobbyists about tubes and seem to know your stuff and if I had a question about how far to bias a particular tube I'd be as apt to ask you, Marty, then I would anyone else.

I'm dangling on the fence on whether to get one of my VM's modded by FJA not because of his price because it's really not bad price considering what I'm wanting done (please no questions about that because that's something I'd rather someone ask him directly since it is his business, I'm just a potential customer), it's the shipping back and forth that I'm needing to accept, but I'd be more apt to invest in that sort of thing that also increases the value (after all it's not one of the holy grail amps that should be pristine) and versatility (it would make it a 2 channel 2 mode amp + ) that's the primary reason I'm asking, no offense intended.

Whatever. I'm spun. Too much coffee for me. Wish you the best in your new endeavor.

Love Jerry's mods. He will work with you to get just what you want out of that amp as humanly or tech savvy as he can.

Look forward to being able to talk with you about it. A fan.

steelhorse · 05-15-2009, 08:16 PM

You still didn't answer my question, Marty who the original question was directed at did.

Thanks!

solarburnDSL50 · 05-15-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

You still didn't answer my question, Marty who the original question was directed at did.

Thanks!

He's a wee bit sharper than me here.

I definitely trust him and he's got good advice for me who is a NOS noob. Also sells me great sounding tubes.

MartyStrat54 · 05-15-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

The primary difference is new tubes are warrantied and like I said this isn't bash and I mean that, it's puzzling that so much is invested in these things.

Far as I can tell you and a few others here are serious hobbyists about tubes and seem to know your stuff and if I had a question about how far to bias a particular tube I'd be as apt to ask you, Marty, then I would anyone else.

I'm dangling on the fence on whether to get one of my VM's modded by FJA not because of his price because it's really not bad price considering what I'm wanting done (please no questions about that because that's something I'd rather someone ask him directly since it is his business, I'm just a potential customer), it's the shipping back and forth that I'm needing to accept, but I'd be more apt to invest in that sort of thing that also increases the value (after all it's not one of the holy grail amps that should be pristine) and versatility (it would make it a 2 channel 2 mode amp + ) that's the primary reason I'm asking, no offense intended.

Going by what you said, about halfway back in this thread I posted the cost on getting the transfomers upgraded on say my TSL100. It would be at or over $1000. I paid $700 for my TSL100. I also found out that a choke mod is only beneficial on say a 100 watt amp. Doing a choke mod on my 401 would not be worth the money and the same could possibly be said for a 50 or 60 watt amps. Yet everyday, someone is forking over the dough for a trannie upgrade. It makes the cost of tubes look small and at least with tubes you can hear an immediate difference, or at least I can.

I agree with you that you have a product and it is worth "X" amount. How much money do you want to invest in it for "Y" amount of results? If you plan on keeping the amp (X), then the investment can be spread over the course of two or three years.

Shipping is a pain in the ass. Heads aren't as bad as 212 Combo's. If you don't do a stellar job, then it might end up at FJA in pieces and that would suck tit on a boar hog. If you do go ahead with this and you need any packing tips, just ask. The main thing is you want to go with a double box.

Thanks for your input and opinions.

Marty

steelhorse · 05-15-2009, 09:21 PM

I was quoted much less (and I mean much less) than that for my VM (I bought this 2266 brand new in October as a display model) and it's the full meal deal, it's the shipping that's holding me back. I have my own fedex accounts so it's not as bad. I'm still debating.

I have a flight case and a foam in place double box for my Marshall's so that's not an issue.

MartyStrat54 · 05-15-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

I was quoted much less (and I mean much less) than that for my VM (I bought this 2266 brand new in October as a display model) and it's the full meal deal, it's the shipping that's holding me back. I have my own fedex accounts so it's not as bad. I'm still debating.

I have a flight case and a foam in place double box for my Marshall's so that's not an issue.

Good! You have your shipping taken care of and I like FedEx a lot better than UPS. It's just a matter of if and when.

steelhorse · 05-16-2009, 12:12 AM

I have just one more thing to try out (a pedal) but I'm teetering on the edge of going for it.

solarburnDSL50 · 05-16-2009, 12:27 AM

Here is the vid of the DSL mod I got that pushed me over the edge to get it. I already had the MM OT. I had Jerry do the circuit and add a choke.

YouTube - FJA modded DSL Mercury 2

steelhorse · 05-16-2009, 01:13 AM

Sweet!! That sounds great!

joshuaaewallen · 05-16-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Josh, I forgot. Have you tried out your BP missle yet? Let me know. Kevin gave me good reviews on the set that I sold him.

Marty

Hey Marty... I have played with it just a wee bit. However I got sidetracked by the Yellow Jacket debacle. So far all I can say is Holy Crap Batman! This thing is ready to blow the roof off my house! I am blown away by the gain on tap. Almost literally. You sure hit that one outta the ball park.

But... It's late (and I'm not a night owl), so I'll leave it at that for now...

I think I'm gradually closing in on "my tone"... Perhaps next on my list is to find a good V3/Tone Stack tube (pulled the GT that was there and threw in the GE 12AX7 you sent me)...

Don't worry there will be more later. I will issue a full report when I am not inebriated with drowsiness. Until then, take care and rest assured that you have one majorly satisfied customer, Plain and simple... You Rock!

:r ock:

joshuaaewallen · 05-16-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarburnDSL50

Burning a light bulb out. At least it was on stand-by. I think this is the first time I've done it. Anyways I suppose a tube or 2 could have gone out but not necessarily....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

It's not going to do a darn thing, except be on all night. Yeah, the tubes rack up some on time, but oh well, they are usually good for 3 to 5,000 hours.

As long as you have speakers hooked up everything will be okay, regardless of whether the stand-by switch is on or off...

... Hang in there. The NT will still be a rollin'. It's not damaged.

Marty

Hey there Solar...

I was watching some vids this morning in a vain attempt to get my mind to wake up, and these posts of yours & Marty's came to mind. I know, again with the repetition already!

This is a video of some of Mesa's QC procedures, which for a rather large manufacturer I thought was fairly intensive, and one of the things they do is... Power up the amps, w/ a load, take 'em off standby, and let 'em cook for 24 hours (this part is about 8 minutes into the video). So, just like our guru was sayin', if just bein' on over night damages something, then it was a piece of junk before that anyway. Your amp should be able to do that "standing on it's head!"

Mesa Boogie Factory Tour-Assembly & "Hammer Test" - PremierGuitar.com

Anyways, I love stuff like this because it just reaffirms to me that I'm not completely crazy. And it really is yet another notch in Marty's pistol for never steering us wrong. Like we'd ever doubt him! Rock on Marty! And rock on SolarBurn!

PS... I would love to see some of Marshall's manufacturing and QC techniques...

solarburnDSL50 · 05-16-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

Hey there Solar...

I was watching some vids this morning in a vain attempt to get my mind to wake up, and these posts of yours & Marty's came to mind. I know, again with the repetition already!

This is a video of some of Mesa's QC procedures, which for a rather large manufacturer I thought was fairly intensive, and one of the things they do is... Power up the amps, w/ a load, take 'em off standby, and let 'em cook for 24 hours (this part is about 8 minutes into the video). So, just like our guru was sayin', if just bein' on over night damages something, then it was a piece of junk before that anyway. Your amp should be able to do that "standing on it's head!"

Mesa Boogie Factory Tour-Assembly & "Hammer Test" - PremierGuitar.com

Anyways, I love stuff like this because it just reaffirms to me that I'm not completely crazy. And it really is yet another notch in Marty's pistol for never steering us wrong. Like we'd ever doubt him! Rock on Marty! And rock on SolarBurn!

PS... I would love to see some of Marshall's manufacturing and QC techniques...

Thanks Josh. You know I almost did it again. Left it on for about 5 hrs. I think I have a handle on it.

Got myself trained to turn it off right away now he he.

MartyStrat54 · 05-16-2009, 04:16 PM

Gee...now Josh's dad is posting on the forum and man did he get some eggs cracked over his head. Josh, it's time you had a talk with your dad. Look what he went and did.

Sad Sad Sad day in MarshallLand

Marty

joshuaaewallen · 05-16-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Gee...now Josh's dad is posting on the forum and man did he get some eggs cracked over his head. Josh, it's time you had a talk with your dad. Look what he went and did.

Sad Sad Sad day in MarshallLand

Marty

Sorry mate. Mission Impossible protocol dictates that in the event of capture I must disavow any knowledge of the captured agent... And since I actually don't know joshuasdad, I think I can successfully pull that off!

... Sorry joshuasdad.

MartyStrat54 · 05-16-2009, 08:24 PM

He-he-he.

Marty-Certified to be not affiliated in any way, shape or form with Joshua's Dad.

joshuaaewallen · 05-16-2009, 08:39 PM

Hey Marty... My tube Guru... Here's some questioning for you... I found an old Admiral TV from the 50's at a garage sale today for $6. I figured, "Eh, what the heck." So I brought it home and started pulling tubes. Here's what I've come up with, are any of these useful or worth anything at all?

Admiral 6AU6 1-52
Made In USA 2 14
________________________________

USA
12AU7A 6048 ARDS(?)
Anline (?) 274
________________________________

Admiral 6S4
Made in USA
________________________________

TUNG-SOL 322233
Made In USA
________________________________

TUNG-SOL 6AL5
Made In USA 3221-16
________________________________

6BQ7
A GE Electronic
59-17 TUBE
188-5 Made In USA
________________________________

Raytheon 6 104
UNILINE U(or J)6A Made In USA
First In Quality
________________________________

SYLVANIA 1
Made In USA 3
4
________________________________

6AU6
418 1
SYLVANIA _
Made In USA 3
________________________________

6AU6 (RCA maybe?)
________________________________

Admiral 6AU6
Made In USA 1-52
274
________________________________

Admiral 6AG5
made In USA
274
________________________________

Admiral 1-53
Made In USA 274
________________________________

Made 6V6
In GI 51 21
USA WO
NU
NATIONAL UNION ELECTRON TUBE
________________________________

GE Electronic Tube 6BQ66A
Made In USA ----------
6CU6
________________________________

Admiral 32
Made In USA 10 6SN7
29 GT
________________________________

GE Electronic Tube 6W4
Made In USA GT
________________________________

1-22 KEN-RAD 6AC7
188-5 Made In USA 1852
________________________________

1-17 KEN-RAD 6SN7
188-5 Made In USA GTA
________________________________

And more at: Tubes pictures from music photos on webshots

Any thoughts mate?

MartyStrat54 · 05-16-2009, 09:51 PM

To bad it didn't have a built in radio or phono, then you would have struck gold as there would have been 12AX7's, 12AT7's and a pair of power tubes like 6V6 or 6BQ5's (EL84's).

The big funky looking tube is probably a "coke bottle" 5U4GB. That would be a rectifier tube. The 6V6 and the 6SN7 are keepers. I would have bought it myself, just to get all of the resistors and mica caps and other odd components that you can't find anymore like "bumble bee caps."

Take a pair of side-cutters and strip all of the components out of it and just put it away.

I wish I could say something more positive, it's just that straight tube TV's use TV tubes. Now if you had found an all tube record player for $6 that would be a different story...

Marty

joshuaaewallen · 05-17-2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

To bad it didn't have a built in radio or phono, then you would have struck gold as there would have been 12AX7's, 12AT7's and a pair of power tubes like 6V6 or 6BQ5's (EL84's)...

... I would have bought it myself, just to get all of the resistors and mica caps and other odd components that you can't find anymore like "bumble bee caps."

Take a pair of side-cutters and strip all of the components out of it and just put it away...

Far out. It was kinda fun. So... It was overall in pretty rough shape. I pulled every tube and cut out the best of the parts that were left... But there's really not much there. I'll tell ya what.... You've been uber helpful, so have a look at the pics of what's there (Tubes pictures from music photos on webshots starting after the THD Yellow Jacket shots) and if there is anything you want just say let me know and I'll send it out to you asap. It ain't much, but it's a small thanks... Besides... I clearly have no idea what to do with most of it anyway...

Dumb, Dumb, Da, Dumb...

I plan on looking through garage sales this summer for old tube radios and the like. It might be a cool way to find tubes and components. This was definitely my first foray into this endeavor. This time most of the caps and other parts had burst, bubbled, and corroded. But next time... Who knows? And at garage sale prices... What's to lose? Especially if I find some original American made tubes.

Yeah... I must be loopy... I am rambling today. Sorry guys.

joshuaaewallen · 05-17-2009, 10:11 AM

Any ideas what brand this 12AU7 is? I can't quite read it...

MartyStrat54 · 05-17-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuaaewallen

Any ideas what brand this 12AU7 is? I can't quite read it...

Looks like an old "Monkey Wards" Airline tube. It's a relabeled tube. If the tube number is inside of a long octagon box, it is an RCA. If it has the part number etched in the glass with USA, it is a Sylvania. Otherwise, it is hard to tell when the MFG's code is worn off. All electrical/electronic companies have a three digit EIA code. (Google EIA Codes for more info). These three digits are in essence the "true" brand of the tube.

As far as buying old electronics, you only need to find one good tube to more than make up for the purchase price. I usually spend 5 to 10 dollars on old record players and TV's. The good tubes and other electrical components will easily exceed the purchase price. I have boxes of components that I have salvaged from old audio gear. However, the best feeling is when you find a pair or a quad of 7199 or 6BQ5 power tubes and they still test strong. That's cause for celebration.

I'll take another look, but I probably won't need any of the tubes, but I will look through them again and let you know.

Marty

zimske · 05-18-2009, 09:51 AM

hey guys! i'm new here and loving this topic!

i've just posted a new thread about changing the tubes in my 100W 2203 head without seeing this and figured this one gives the answers to most of my questions.

what's your general opinion on jj tubes? i was thinking on retubing the el34s with kt77 given the fact they have more headroom and better clean? is that a fact?
what preamp tubes would you recommend for this amp? i was thinking JJ ECC81 (12AT7) or ECC82 (12AU7) with kt77's. what can i expect from the amp to sound like with these?

solarburnDSL50 · 05-18-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

hey guys! i'm new here and loving this topic!

i've just posted a new thread about changing the tubes in my 100W 2203 head without seeing this and figured this one gives the answers to most of my questions.

what's your general opinion on jj tubes? i was thinking on retubing the el34s with kt77 given the fact they have more headroom and better clean? is that a fact?
what preamp tubes would you recommend for this amp? i was thinking JJ ECC81 (12AT7) or ECC82 (12AU7) with kt77's. what can i expect from the amp to sound like with these?

Welcome to the Club!

I like JJ KT-77's which I've tried and still have sitting in my drawer. Saving for later. The tubes were robust, good lows and the cleans were outstanding on these. I hear the 34L's are really good in a Marshall too.

That's a loaded question for me regarding JJ preamp tubes that I will pass on.

I prefer other preamp tubes. I like to tailor my gain here for my DSL. Lots of experimenting I've done.

Someone with your amp may have better suggestions but I'm really particular with mine. I will say I like Mullard RI, Tung SOl RI, AC5's and NOS. You can see in my sig what I have now.

zimske · 05-18-2009, 11:42 AM

hey solarburn! tnx for the info.

thing is, i'm a heavy tube noob (a toob

), so any kind of info is great, but like you've said, it'd be awesome if someone with 2203 jcm800 would tap into here.

anyway, two days in, i'm almost there with the power tubes, and i think it'll be KT77's in case i can put them in my amp without any modifications to the amp, and i figure they are directly replaceable with el34, plug-and-play style, so i just need an expert's confirmation. even though amp's manual confirms this, i'm still not convinced, first hand experience is a must.

it's preamp tube time, now.... and god knows how much time i'm gonna lose on this.

say, me being a newbie here, can any of you guys point me to the Ultimate Jesus Marshall Authority here? there's gotta be one here, right?

joshuaaewallen · 05-18-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

... it's preamp tube time, now.... and god knows how much time i'm gonna lose on this.

say, me being a newbie here, can any of you guys point me to the Ultimate Jesus Marshall Authority here? there's gotta be one here, right?

Welcome! This is a great forum and a great thread, and I know you'll get lots of useful feedback.

"Ultimate Jesus Marshall Authority"... Whew! That's a tall order mate! There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks here. But sinse we are talking pre-amp tubes... Marty (MartyStrat54) is really my guru. You might drop him a line if you have something specific.

I'd have to say I'm in line w/ Solar when it comes to JJ's. I do run JJ EL34L's for power tubes, and am actually really happy with them, but when it comes to pre-amp tubes... They just don't thrill me. Not much life to them, if you know what I mean. I plan on experimenting w/ some different new production tubes in the future, but as of late I've been using NOS pre-amp tubes and loving it. Marty hooked me up w/ a really high gain Raytheon 12AX7 Blackplate (that is one hot tube), and he also turned me onto the 12BZ7 (the one I am currently running I found on eBay) as a pre-amp tube. The 12BZ7 is a great sounding 12AX7 substitute. You can read about this earlier on this thread.

Anyhoo... That's my two cents for now. Again, Welcome! ... And feel free to ask anything, or comment any time on the forum. I know you're gonna love it here!

zimske · 05-18-2009, 03:56 PM

thank, josh, but from what i've read and managed to figure myself (even though i may be completely wrong on this), i most definitely don't need high gain preamp tubes cause i've enough of pedals in front of me to deliver the distortion. of course, i don't see why high gain tubes AND distortion pedals should be, and probably aren't, mutually exclusive, but i simply don't see the need for the high gain preamp tubes. if you could tell me why exactly would or wouldn't one want to have these, and the impact on the behaviour and sound of amp itself.

joshuaaewallen · 05-18-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

thank, josh, but from what i've read and managed to figure myself (even though i may be completely wrong on this), i most definitely don't need high gain preamp tubes cause i've enough of pedals in front of me to deliver the distortion. of course, i don't see why high gain tubes AND distortion pedals should be, and probably aren't, mutually exclusive, but i simply don't see the need for the high gain preamp tubes. if you could tell me why exactly would or wouldn't one want to have these, and the impact on the behaviour and sound of amp itself.

For me the distortion coming from the amp always just plain sounds better to my ears than that coming from a pedal. But that's all about personal taste. As far as lower gain pre-amp tubes go... I'd really have to defer to Marty & Solar on that subject. They've both commented previously on the thread about some tubes that work will in this application. I have a 12AU7 that I am not using that is (I believe) about 17% the of the gain that you'd find in a 12AX7 (give or take)... Another option may be a 12AY7. I have used the 12AY7 in the past in a lower gain amp to mellow and smooth things out... I believe that the 12AY7 has a gain factor of 45.... But like I said, I've been chasing high gain tubes and really don't have much to offer when it comes to low gain experiences. Solar seems to like things a beit lower and bluesier... I believe he boosts his signal with pedals to achieve his heavier sounds... Anyhoo... That's about all I can say on that subject. I hope it helps somewhat...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

I posted the following on a different thread that had expanded into tube usage. I thought I would go ahead and post it here since it contains info on preamp tubes.

Marty

************************************************** **********
... Some people want less gain. This allows the volume controls to be cranked more and therefore you get more power tube distortion (the 12BZ7 will give you more preamp gain and preamp distortion). The tubes of choice are a 12AT7 with a gain factor of 70, a 12AU7 with a gain factor of only 17 and a 5751 (which is a low noise, lower gain 12AX7) with a gain factor of 70. Other 12xx7 tubes with a 9A pin layout are: 12AX7A, 12AD7, 12DF7, 12DT7, 7025 (Ultra quiet, high gain 12AX7), and 12DM7. There are many more and some of these other tubes might work. I'm only listing what are known to be direct replacements for an ECC83/12AX7 tube. Note: If you want a super clean channel, I would recommend a 5751 or a 7025. This is what I use in V1. However the 5751 can be bought for less money than a 7025. The 7025 is very quiet, but has a gain factor of 100 like a 12AX7...

... This may also be helpful: Guitar amp tweak - change the gain factor of your pre-amp

MartyStrat54 · 05-18-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

hey solarburn! tnx for the info.

thing is, i'm a heavy tube noob (a toob

), so any kind of info is great, but like you've said, it'd be awesome if someone with 2203 jcm800 would tap into here.

anyway, two days in, i'm almost there with the power tubes, and i think it'll be KT77's in case i can put them in my amp without any modifications to the amp, and i figure they are directly replaceable with el34, plug-and-play style, so i just need an expert's confirmation. even though amp's manual confirms this, i'm still not convinced, first hand experience is a must.

it's preamp tube time, now.... and god knows how much time i'm gonna lose on this.

say, me being a newbie here, can any of you guys point me to the Ultimate Jesus Marshall Authority here? there's gotta be one here, right?

Hey Zimske! Welcome to the thread. Just some quick points. The KT77's are a direct replacement for EL34's. They do provide a cleaner sound and they have more headroom. If that is the type of sound you want, than they are the tubes to use. A lot of guys on this forum have switched to KT's and they are really happy with them.

Preamp tubes. If you want less gain than I would recommend a 5751 or a 12AT7 in V1. Team this up with a good 12AX7 in V2 and this will work really good with the KT77's. What this does is that it changes what I call your window of sound. This setup will give you a high headroom rig. You will have to really crank your pre gain and master volume to get it screaming. This sort of setup lends itself to OD and distortion pedals, if that's your game.

Again, welcome to the show.

Marty

zimske · 05-19-2009, 10:16 AM

marty, you nailed it to the head!

now, i've only got the manufacturer to choose. josh, when you said that jj preamp tubes, basically, suck, did you mean specifically 12ax7 or their preamp tubes in general. if that's the case, should i be looking for something in the line of this?

anyway, on my Quest for the Tubes i contacted eurotubes, and here's an interesting thing the guy named eddie said about kt77s...

Quote:

They have a beastly low end compared to your typical EL34 along with a smooth mid range and a fairly present and aggressive high end.

.

...which i'm not sure i like, since the amp is currently, with poor lamps, a bit much too bright for my tastes. i can't know will these new tubes make it brighter or less bright. okay, that's what the treble and presence pots are for, to reduce the brightness, but how can i be sure i won't annoy bats even with the values reduced to zero? i mean, they can't be *that* bright, right? should i twack the infamous bright cap? am i going off topic?

yelp.

joshuaaewallen · 05-19-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimske

marty, you nailed it to the head!

... josh, when you said that jj preamp tubes, basically, suck, did you mean specifically 12ax7 or their preamp tubes in general. if that's the case, should i be looking for something in the line of this?...

Well... I wouldn't say that that JJ's suck. It really is a personal taste thing. I have a couple JJ's here (a Goldpin 12AX7 & an ECC83S (12AX7)) that do find rotation in and out of my amp from time to time. I don't think they are horrid, they just don't float my boat. They don't have the harmonic content that the NOS tubes I've been using seem to have.

That being said, where I do typically use them (aside from using for trouble shooting because I know they are fully functional) is in the V3 & V4 positions where they seem to effect the harmonic content of my distortion less. That way I can have some tubes that really sing in V1 & V2.

Again it really is a personal taste issue and I would encourage you to buy a couple and compare them to more expensive new production and NOS tubes and see what floats your boat. Steelhorse uses JJ's and really seems to like them . Plus they are a lot less expensive than a Mullard. But in the end, it's your tone, and it's your ears, and only you know what sounds good to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

What I prefer is not having to actually mod my amp and then spending a gazillion man hours researching and spending the big bucks for NOS tubes only having to wind up sending them out to have them tested and evaluated...

... Ain't gonna happen. I have a very critical ear and the JJ's hardly sound flat and undefined to me

.

05-15-2009, 08:16 PM	#303 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,886	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? You still didn't answer my question, Marty who the original question was directed at did. Thanks! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

05-15-2009, 09:21 PM	#306 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,886	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I was quoted much less (and I mean much less) than that for my VM (I bought this 2266 brand new in October as a display model) and it's the full meal deal, it's the shipping that's holding me back. I have my own fedex accounts so it's not as bad. I'm still debating. I have a flight case and a foam in place double box for my Marshall's so that's not an issue. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

05-16-2009, 12:12 AM	#308 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,886	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? I have just one more thing to try out (a pedal) but I'm teetering on the edge of going for it. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

05-16-2009, 01:13 AM	#310 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,886	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Sweet!! That sounds great! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

05-16-2009, 04:16 PM	#314 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Gee...now Josh's dad is posting on the forum and man did he get some eggs cracked over his head. Josh, it's time you had a talk with your dad. Look what he went and did. Sad Sad Sad day in MarshallLand Marty

05-16-2009, 08:24 PM	#316 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? He-he-he. Marty-Certified to be not affiliated in any way, shape or form with Joshua's Dad.

05-16-2009, 08:39 PM	#317 (permalink)
joshuaaewallen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 372	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Hey Marty... My tube Guru... Here's some questioning for you... I found an old Admiral TV from the 50's at a garage sale today for $6. I figured, "Eh, what the heck." So I brought it home and started pulling tubes. Here's what I've come up with, are any of these useful or worth anything at all? Admiral 6AU6 1-52 Made In USA 2 14 ________________________________ USA 12AU7A 6048 ARDS(?) Anline (?) 274 ________________________________ Admiral 6S4 Made in USA ________________________________ TUNG-SOL 322233 Made In USA ________________________________ TUNG-SOL 6AL5 Made In USA 3221-16 ________________________________ 6BQ7 A GE Electronic 59-17 TUBE 188-5 Made In USA ________________________________ Raytheon 6 104 UNILINE U(or J)6A Made In USA First In Quality ________________________________ SYLVANIA 1 Made In USA 3 4 ________________________________ 6AU6 418 1 SYLVANIA _ Made In USA 3 ________________________________ 6AU6 (RCA maybe?) ________________________________ Admiral 6AU6 Made In USA 1-52 274 ________________________________ Admiral 6AG5 made In USA 274 ________________________________ Admiral 1-53 Made In USA 274 ________________________________ Made 6V6 In GI 51 21 USA WO NU NATIONAL UNION ELECTRON TUBE ________________________________ GE Electronic Tube 6BQ66A Made In USA ---------- 6CU6 ________________________________ Admiral 32 Made In USA 10 6SN7 29 GT ________________________________ GE Electronic Tube 6W4 Made In USA GT ________________________________ 1-22 KEN-RAD 6AC7 188-5 Made In USA 1852 ________________________________ 1-17 KEN-RAD 6SN7 188-5 Made In USA GTA ________________________________ And more at: Tubes pictures from music photos on webshots Any thoughts mate? __________________ Josh 2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested) 1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122 - Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's - Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll... HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/ "... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

05-16-2009, 09:51 PM	#318 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,580	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? To bad it didn't have a built in radio or phono, then you would have struck gold as there would have been 12AX7's, 12AT7's and a pair of power tubes like 6V6 or 6BQ5's (EL84's). The big funky looking tube is probably a "coke bottle" 5U4GB. That would be a rectifier tube. The 6V6 and the 6SN7 are keepers. I would have bought it myself, just to get all of the resistors and mica caps and other odd components that you can't find anymore like "bumble bee caps." Take a pair of side-cutters and strip all of the components out of it and just put it away. I wish I could say something more positive, it's just that straight tube TV's use TV tubes. Now if you had found an all tube record player for $6 that would be a different story... Marty

05-17-2009, 10:11 AM	#320 (permalink)
joshuaaewallen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 372	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? Any ideas what brand this 12AU7 is? I can't quite read it... __________________ Josh 2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top Dean Caddy w/ Bare Knuckles Nail Bombs (This One's For Sale, Just Let Me Know If You Are Interested) 1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122 - Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's - Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll... HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/ "... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

05-18-2009, 09:51 AM	#322 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? hey guys! i'm new here and loving this topic! i've just posted a new thread about changing the tubes in my 100W 2203 head without seeing this and figured this one gives the answers to most of my questions. what's your general opinion on jj tubes? i was thinking on retubing the el34s with kt77 given the fact they have more headroom and better clean? is that a fact? what preamp tubes would you recommend for this amp? i was thinking JJ ECC81 (12AT7) or ECC82 (12AU7) with kt77's. what can i expect from the amp to sound like with these?

05-18-2009, 11:42 AM	#324 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? hey solarburn! tnx for the info. thing is, i'm a heavy tube noob (a toob ), so any kind of info is great, but like you've said, it'd be awesome if someone with 2203 jcm800 would tap into here. anyway, two days in, i'm almost there with the power tubes, and i think it'll be KT77's in case i can put them in my amp without any modifications to the amp, and i figure they are directly replaceable with el34, plug-and-play style, so i just need an expert's confirmation. even though amp's manual confirms this, i'm still not convinced, first hand experience is a must. it's preamp tube time, now.... and god knows how much time i'm gonna lose on this. say, me being a newbie here, can any of you guys point me to the Ultimate Jesus Marshall Authority here? there's gotta be one here, right?

05-18-2009, 03:56 PM	#326 (permalink)
zimske Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24	Re: Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How? thank, josh, but from what i've read and managed to figure myself (even though i may be completely wrong on this), i most definitely don't need high gain preamp tubes cause i've enough of pedals in front of me to deliver the distortion. of course, i don't see why high gain tubes AND distortion pedals should be, and probably aren't, mutually exclusive, but i simply don't see the need for the high gain preamp tubes. if you could tell me why exactly would or wouldn't one want to have these, and the impact on the behaviour and sound of amp itself.

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