MarshallForum.com
 
Go Back   MarshallForum.com > The Amps > Marshall Amps
LIKE MarshallForum on Facebook FOLLOW MarshallForum on Twitter
  
Like Tree163Likes

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 12-17-2011, 12:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 289
Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

I love Marshalls, but the one thing that's bugged me about them is that their build quality doesn't seem to be improving very much.

One impressive thing that Mesa has done is that they've managed to become innovative while maintaining very high quality builds. Mesas are a different beast, of course, and I don't particularly like their distorted tones, but they're built very solidly.

It seems like there's been a response to the poor Marshall build quality. A ton of small amp clone companies have sprung up, all based on classic Marshall designs. Ceriatone, Metropolis, Egnater, etc.

It makes me wonder what modern Marshalls would sound like if they had better build qualities.
alvagoldbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Marshall Amps

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on MarshallForum.com
   
Unread 12-17-2011, 12:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Lespaulnmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burning hell
Posts: 5,577
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Nothing wrong with modern marshalls IMHO.
And those 'small companies didn't spring up because of marshalls 'infirior' build quality. Egnater is not based on Marshall, metro makes exact clones of vintage marshalls, ceriatone makes clones of many different amps and makes their own designs.
__________________
1987x .Every guitarist should have experienced it at least once

Lespaulnmarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 12:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Murmel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 322
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Mesas build quality is outstanding, no question.
But there is nothing wrong with modern Marshalls. Talk to any Marshall dealer and they will tell you that the number of defects in Marshalls is extremly low.
If all British products had Marshall quality the UK would still have a lot more industry.
Murmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 02:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 836
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

What exactly is wrong with Marshall's build quality? Examples?

And how does Mesa stack up price-wise against Marshall, like for like spec?
spacerocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 02:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jason77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 739
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

I would also like to know what you think is wrong with the build quality.
__________________
'02 LP standard | '13 SG Standard | '98 SG-Z

100w '69 Plexi clone | DSL 100 & 50
1960B with WGS Green Berets

TU-2 < Catalinbread Belle Epoch < Catalinbread DLS < MXR Badass OD < Wilson wah
Jason77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 02:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Lespaulnmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burning hell
Posts: 5,577
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacerocker View Post
What exactly is wrong with Marshall's build quality? Examples?

And how does Mesa stack up price-wise against Marshall, like for like spec?
Exactly, mesa's build quality is and has always been great and much more expensive, but that doesen't mean marshalls are crap.
__________________
1987x .Every guitarist should have experienced it at least once

Lespaulnmarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 02:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
DSL100 Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,027
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Trolling...
80s dude likes this.
__________________
1987x
DSL 100
Class 5
Class 5 Rojo
G30RCD
1960A


Quote:
Originally Posted by StootMonster View Post
My friend, deep down - every guitar longs to play the blues. Even the BC Rich Bitches...
Heck, I even was doing a little blues on my 2 year old's Ukulele the other day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lespaulnmarshall View Post
...LESS BITCHIN' MORE PLAYIN'!
DSL100 Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 02:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 466
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvagoldbook View Post
I love Marshalls, but the one thing that's bugged me about them is that their build quality doesn't seem to be improving very much.

One impressive thing that Mesa has done is that they've managed to become innovative while maintaining very high quality builds. Mesas are a different beast, of course, and I don't particularly like their distorted tones, but they're built very solidly.

It seems like there's been a response to the poor Marshall build quality. A ton of small amp clone companies have sprung up, all based on classic Marshall designs. Ceriatone, Metropolis, Egnater, etc.

It makes me wonder what modern Marshalls would sound like if they had better build qualities.
There is one reason that all these small companies are building Marshall clones and that is because Marshall has THE sound of rock and they want to be like them..I'll take sound over build quality any day and I have still yet to play a Mesa that will replace my Marshall
twitchylizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 03:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
S÷ulcaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Great Southern Land
Posts: 6,938
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

My AFD seems very well built with a lot of attention to detail - no complaints here =)

Seems as well built as any Marshall ive owned
__________________
"weight of my heart...not the size"
MARSHALL AFD100
REYNOLDS SKUNKWORX MODDED PLEXI100
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldozer1984 View Post
there is something about the raunchy n sexy sounding AFD that makes me tingle !
S÷ulcaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 04:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Blueslicks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 654
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

alvagoldbook is correct imo.

The inside of both my HW 2061x head as well as matching 2061cx cab both had pretty shoddy workmanship for the cost of the gear. The center post in the cab looked like it had been shot with bullets several times at the base with failed attempts to drill it to the front baffle, post was way off center and screw was busting through the side of the wood base block. Took me all of 30 minutes to measure, correct and center it perfectly. Soldering inside both head and cab was pretty amature and had many cold looking joints needing redo for my own piece of mind. As well, the preamp tube slip on shields had to be replaced because they are some ulra thin cheapo crap that WILL NOT stay on the tubes. The fit and locking is so bad if you hit a power chord with any volume they would shoot right off the springs and then be audibly vibrating in the chasis. Just ****ing awesome when paying for a studio session. The tube socket bases afixed to the chasis don't line up and on one it is actually buckled and wobbly from being poorly riveted. Easy fixes of course and I love the amp now but unacceptable coming out of the box at that price point.

I do like the build quality of the Vintage RI series which appears to have been maintained over the years and I have always been confident with those for my live rig but other Marshalls being offered including high end Signature gear just appear cheap to me these days. Very run of the mill assembly line build quality and flimsy looking crappily constructed components. Plastic buttons and switches appear to have planned obsolescence. I'd say Marshall for me lost a lot of mojo after the early JCM 800 run. Early 90's as soon as the 900's came out shit just started looking cheap to me.

However, it's still the sound in the end and the vintage circuit can always be replicated. Just a shame that to get a quality build and components one needs to go elsewhere. I will eventually switch to something like Germino when I can afford to do so as I require Vintage circuit with roadworthy build quality and he provides that in spades. Can't even imagine who you'd approach to repair or locate parts for some of the new "computer chip" gear being offered by Marshall if it went down on you while on the road. Marshall imo has lost touch with quality control and I doubt will be able to regain any due to all of the outsourcing and sheer size of the company now. And while yes there is always older "pre crappy build quality" vintage Marshall gear one can purchase, I personally don't like to rely on nor trust pushing old gear hard when in a live setting.
Blueslicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 289
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Well, for instance, anyone ever taken a look at the guts of a JVM and compared it to the guts of a Roadster or a Mark V?

Both amps are multi-channel beasts with a ton of diversity built under the hood. But as someone who builds pedals and beginning to work on simple amp designs, I know that quality components makes all the difference.

For instance, here is a gut shot of a JVM.



One might notice a certain lack of quality components. No orange drops in this guy. If you look really closely, and you know how to identify resistor values by their colors, you'll see that many of their resistors are at 5%
tolerances.



Here is a picture of a where the controls meet the PCB on the JVM. A trained eye will notice that the controls are connected using a panel mount design, which is where modern electronics is going. But in an amp as complex as this, it means damaging a pot means possibly damaging or destroying it's PCB, making repairs quite costly.



Here is a picture of a Roadster's guts.



You'll notice a ton of orange drop caps, flying leads from the pots, neat and tidy wiring, and that the caps are glued down to secure them from vibration.

Here's a gut shot of a Mark V

alvagoldbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 289
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Now one might argue that panel mounting pots is a bit of a necessity with an amp as complex as a JVM. But here is a gut shot of the AFD100. You'll notice the same panel mounted PCB's.





Yet, here is the guts of the Ceriatone 2555. One will notice that it's all point to point wiring.

alvagoldbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TwinACStacks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: I've got a Friggin' MIDI..... In DETROIT
Posts: 18,985
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Problem is, Orange drops are for Fenders. They don't belong in British Amps. Give me a Sozo Vintage, or Real Phillips Mustard anyday.

TWIN
Gtarzan81 likes this.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by triftstrassa View Post
Are you retarted?
Quote: longfxukxnhair
I knew they were wrong. I can find my ass with both hands

Jm D1 Trusted by more musicians than Fed Ex

Want to make GOD laugh? Tell him about your plans.
TwinACStacks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
Moderator
 
MartyStrat54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Now in Muskogee, by Tulsa
Posts: 25,331
Send a message via Yahoo to MartyStrat54
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

5 percent resistors in a guitar amp? OMG! That will never fly.

It's a guitar amp, not a Hi Fi amp. You don't need one percent resistors.

Some of your points are really without warrant. I want my guitar amp to sound like a guitar amp.

Do you believe in a perfectly balanced phase inverter tube? I wonder.

Those parts are plenty good. Marshall's have a good history of dependability as proven by the number of older amps still in use.

There have been more groups and performers using Marshall amps on hit recordings than a Mesa. There is a reason for that. Must be the 5 percent resistors.
__________________


MartyStrat54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TwinACStacks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: I've got a Friggin' MIDI..... In DETROIT
Posts: 18,985
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

5 % will never do....

*sniff, sniff*

TWIN
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by triftstrassa View Post
Are you retarted?
Quote: longfxukxnhair
I knew they were wrong. I can find my ass with both hands

Jm D1 Trusted by more musicians than Fed Ex

Want to make GOD laugh? Tell him about your plans.
TwinACStacks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 289
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinACStacks View Post
Problem is, Orange drops are for Fenders. They don't belong in British Amps. Give me a Sozo Vintage, or Real Phillips Mustard anyday.

TWIN
Orange drops are for Fenders? Caps have an electronic function. Not a bias for a particular amp. They either function well, or they don't. A 5% or a 10% resistor tolerance will be off by their value by 5%-10%. Over a very long circuit, it means the amp will sound different from day to day, depending upon fluctuations in AC voltage. From an engineering stand point, it means it's less well designed.
alvagoldbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
Moderator
 
MartyStrat54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Now in Muskogee, by Tulsa
Posts: 25,331
Send a message via Yahoo to MartyStrat54
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

You know, I think your underwear is on too tight.
__________________


MartyStrat54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 05:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 289
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyStrat54 View Post
You know, I think your underwear is on too tight.
So you're saying you would prefer a PCB panel mount amp over point to point wiring?
alvagoldbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 06:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jason77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 739
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

so, to recap... Marshall's build quality is crap because they don't always use 1% resistors, don't use orange drop caps and mount those crappy sealed pots onto a separate board.

Excuse me while i go laugh my ass off...

__________________
'02 LP standard | '13 SG Standard | '98 SG-Z

100w '69 Plexi clone | DSL 100 & 50
1960B with WGS Green Berets

TU-2 < Catalinbread Belle Epoch < Catalinbread DLS < MXR Badass OD < Wilson wah
Jason77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 06:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
Moderator
 
MartyStrat54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Now in Muskogee, by Tulsa
Posts: 25,331
Send a message via Yahoo to MartyStrat54
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

All the amps you posted pictures of couldn't be PTP. They all contain an immense amount of solid state devices. They have to have PCB its just the nature of the beast.

So your point is?
__________________


MartyStrat54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 06:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
DSL100 Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,027
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvagoldbook View Post
...From an engineering stand point, it means it's less well designed.
Oh LAWD!!!!! Here we go with the engineering crap! Next thing we know we will get long @$$ posts explaining how the designers at Marshall don't know what they are doing. UUGGGHHHHH!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvagoldbook View Post
So you're saying you would prefer a PCB panel mount amp over point to point wiring?
Really?! We're doing this one again?!?!?!
__________________
1987x
DSL 100
Class 5
Class 5 Rojo
G30RCD
1960A


Quote:
Originally Posted by StootMonster View Post
My friend, deep down - every guitar longs to play the blues. Even the BC Rich Bitches...
Heck, I even was doing a little blues on my 2 year old's Ukulele the other day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lespaulnmarshall View Post
...LESS BITCHIN' MORE PLAYIN'!
DSL100 Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 06:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jason77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 739
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL100 Dude View Post
Really?! We're doing this one again?!?!?!
Oh c'mon, man! Don't you know electrons flow more easily through PTP than PCB??!!!1! Geez...
__________________
'02 LP standard | '13 SG Standard | '98 SG-Z

100w '69 Plexi clone | DSL 100 & 50
1960B with WGS Green Berets

TU-2 < Catalinbread Belle Epoch < Catalinbread DLS < MXR Badass OD < Wilson wah
Jason77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 07:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Strateuphoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,199
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason77 View Post
Oh c'mon, man! Don't you know electrons flow more easily through PTP than PCB??!!!1! Geez...
I know if you move the wires around in an old amp, the tone changes. There's more going on in a valve circuit, than whats on paper.
Far Rider likes this.
Strateuphoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 07:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
jt100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 28
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

I'm a new owner of my first Marshall. DSL50. I also own a Mesa Rectoverb. I don't know much about internals but, on the outside the Mesa wins hands down. Metal switches, inputs/outputs, leather handle and the tolex seems to be thicker. I do, however much prefer the Marshall tone. And I also have had the Mesa fixed for a broken cap lead. Both are about 5 years old. The Marshall just seems cheaply built compared to the Mesa. The Mesa gives the impression that it's built like a tank, the Marshall does not. This is external eval only.
jt100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 08:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 289
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyStrat54 View Post
All the amps you posted pictures of couldn't be PTP. They all contain an immense amount of solid state devices. They have to have PCB its just the nature of the beast.

So your point is?
I'm not suggesting that a JVM should be point to point. But there's no reason why a JTM45 RI isn't point to point. Or a JCM 800 2203. Or a AFD100.
alvagoldbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 08:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
Moderator
 
MartyStrat54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Now in Muskogee, by Tulsa
Posts: 25,331
Send a message via Yahoo to MartyStrat54
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

And that's why you will get arguments all day long. You are saying PTP is the best way to go. This is incorrect. PTP was done when the industry didn't know any better. If PCB were available in 1940, the industry would have used them.

PTP wiring can be a source for hum. Have you ever heard of "dressing" wires in a PTP amp?

Are you saying you are one of the gifted people that can hear a difference between a JTM45 PTP and a PCB Reissue?

You are saying PTP is best, yet you turn around and talk about how you like Mesa amps with PCB's and you claim they have a superior build. I don't get it.

Which is it? PTP is better than PCB, unless it's a Mesa? Is that it?
__________________


MartyStrat54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 09:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,308
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

troll thread... been there, done that...

owned a DSL, never failed me once, apart from tubes
JVM still going strong for 4 years... never heard of pots going bad either
AFD point to point... a joke
if you question marshall quality, stay with mesa's and their bloody company politics about biasing amps... or any other bullshit sceme they came up with...
big dooley is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 10:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Marshall's like any other major company out there: They're in it to make money.

Sometimes, that means streamlining things...the PCB's and board-mount pots are part of it. You want the utmost in electronics....hand-wiring.....the caps to be within 1% tolerances? I'm certain Marshall will gladly oblige...for a fee. Those boutique builders sure have no issues with raiding your wallet like the Mongols. BTW.....in regards to the durability of the "modern" construction methods Marshall employs, I have a 31-year-old Peavey combo with a PCB and board-mount pots. Still solid as a rock, no issues whatsoever.

Not enough time to micro-analyze things when running a production floor...yes, sloppy construction should never be excused and I'm sure if you voiced this to your retailer, they'd be willing to correct any issues that may arise.

But has overall quality declined? Sales numbers would be the telling thing....and having played several Big M amplifiers recently, I'd say the quality is still there.
Slap is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 10:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
DSL100 Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,027
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvagoldbook View Post
I'm not suggesting that a JVM should be point to point. But there's no reason why a JTM45 RI isn't point to point. Or a JCM 800 2203. Or a AFD100.
FAIL! There were NO JCM 800 Series 2203 (or any other amp in the 800 series for that matter) that were produced PTP. So then the 2203x would be a CORRECT reissue of the JCM 800 2203. Well, minus the effects loop that several fellas on here that have both reissues and originals have mentioned they love.
sccloser and zarbog8 like this.
__________________
1987x
DSL 100
Class 5
Class 5 Rojo
G30RCD
1960A


Quote:
Originally Posted by StootMonster View Post
My friend, deep down - every guitar longs to play the blues. Even the BC Rich Bitches...
Heck, I even was doing a little blues on my 2 year old's Ukulele the other day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lespaulnmarshall View Post
...LESS BITCHIN' MORE PLAYIN'!
DSL100 Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2011, 10:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Salsg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,564
Re: Has Marshall build quality gone down the toilet?

Even with a "supposed" better build and better parts, I'd take a Marshall over a Mesa becuase Marshalls SOUND better than Mesas. Had a triple rec, solid built, but it was the loudest amp I could never hear, no cut, no tone.
Salsg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:17 AM.


Find us on Facebook!   Follow us on Twitter!

Our Network: PRS Guitar Forum | Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Les Paul Forum | Music Gear Forum | 7 String Guitar Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

MarshallForum proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2005-2014, MarshallForum.com. All Rights Reserved.