did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? - Page 4

jcmjmp · 12-25-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOT TUBES 70

... but a bias issue more so
if you have ever played a amp that is not biased properly you will know
what i mean ,they sound way off , i once experimented with that on my
jcm 800 2210 , bias cold = ok tone but alot less gain , bias hot = a ton
of gain and poor tone

Amen to that. I bought a 100W DSL because it apparently sounded like crap and had shit tone.... Ok Got a great deal He practically gave the thing away. I buy it bring it home and test drive it. Sounded horrible.

I checked the bias, and guess what? The tubes were biased at around 60mv. Bought it up to 76-78mv and the tone was back. Wow!

Kept it for 2-3 months, cleaned it and sold it at a good profit.

steelhorse · 12-25-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

I highly doubt that HotTubes didn't like the amp because the tubes weren't "broken in", as you say.

Why not? I have.

I'm not suggesting that's THE only reason but I've heard brand new amps and I've had new tubes that were supposed to have been burned in that sounded like crap at first but I burned them in and worked them hard for a week and guess what? Sounded like an amp supposed to sound like imo.

When you've played for almost 3.5 decades with tube amps you learn over those years that the more broken in speakers and valve amps sound the best.

imo

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-25-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

Why not? I have.

I'm not suggesting that's THE only reason but I've heard brand new amps and I've had new tubes that were supposed to have been burned in that sounded like crap at first but I burned them in and worked them hard for a week and guess what? Sounded like an amp supposed to sound like imo.

When you've played for almost 3.5 decades with tube amps you learn over those years that the more broken in speakers and valve amps sound the best.

imo

STEELHORSE , you are also right , when ever you have freash tubes , they
can have a very rough around the edges sound to them , this is also my
experience with tubes , i'm only saying this because the night i played the
vintage modern amp it did not sound like a new tube issue , but more of a
poor bias or may be a bad tube , that kind of thing.

stock_hippie · 12-25-2008, 11:43 PM

.cool posts guys

steelhorse · 12-26-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOT TUBES 70

STEELHORSE , you are also right , when ever you have freash tubes , they
can have a very rough around the edges sound to them , this is also my
experience with tubes , i'm only saying this because the night i played the
vintage modern amp it did not sound like a new tube issue , but more of a
poor bias or may be a bad tube , that kind of thing.

Yeah I think you're right. Very few shops take the time to set their amps up before they put them on the floor, but the shop that consigns my stuff from time to time has received lots of comments praising how great the amps I have on the floor are in comparison to the very same amps he has for sale and he's seen for himself how the amps I've worked on get sold before his stock does.

He offered to hire me to set his amps up so I'm tinkering with the idea but it depends how often and how much

Then he heard I also set up floyds and do pickups and electronics from some other players in the area.

Anyway, I hope one day you get to hear a good VM for yourself!

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-26-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

Yeah I think you're right. Very few shops take the time to set their amps up before they put them on the floor, but the shop that consigns my stuff from time to time has received lots of comments praising how great the amps I have on the floor are in comparison to the very same amps he has for sale and he's seen for himself how the amps I've worked on get sold before his stock does.

He offered to hire me to set his amps up so I'm tinkering with the idea but it depends how often and how much

Then he heard I also set up floyds and do pickups and electronics from some other players in the area.

Anyway, I hope one day you get to hear a good VM for yourself!

its funny that you mentioned this extra work / on the side thing , as you know i mod pedals part time mostly for fun and for friends etc, but its been
very busy with alot of other people getting pedals modded and also i custom
fab pedal boards for local players , i have toyed with the idea of getting more
serious about doing this stuff in terms of the amount of work , i try to put
out pro quality work and also stand behind my work . so i have this on my
mind also.

its my experience as well that most amps on the floor at music stores do not
sound the way they should , its been a long time since a amp on the floor
has put a smile on my face , so to add to your comments about music stores
not spending enough time on making things look and sound good , you are
soo right , some times it disapoints me that i pick up a 2500$ guitar and it
has been played by someone with greasy fingers and the strings are dead,
it out of tune , and some of the staff have not even heard of intonation ,
my first thought is " have you no pride in you store " , it makes a big impession on the average customer on how things are set up and displayed
IMO.

steelhorse · 12-27-2008, 12:49 AM

Exactly and that's why I am considering doing the gig part time for this particular dealer. We have a lot in common, the same age and he and his family are just solid down to earth folks so for them to show an interest is not something I'm taking lightly and just goes to show his commitment to customer service.

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-27-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

Exactly and that's why I am considering doing the gig part time for this particular dealer. We have a lot in common, the same age and he and his family are just solid down to earth folks so for them to show an interest is not something I'm taking lightly and just goes to show his commitment to customer service.

right on !!!

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-28-2008, 02:20 PM

NEW INFO !!!!!!!!!!

I have convinced my tech pal who works at the music store that there is something
not rihgt with the vintage modern amp on the floor , he said he would look at it right
after the xmas break. so maybe , just maybe i can have a real listen to a vintage modern
amp the way its ment to be !!!

stock_hippie · 12-28-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOT TUBES 70

NEW INFO !!!!!!!!!!

I have convinced my tech pal who works at the music store that there is something
not rihgt with the vintage modern amp on the floor , he said he would look at it right
after the xmas break. so maybe , just maybe i can have a real listen to a vintage modern
amp the way its ment to be !!!

wow...what if you LIKE it???!!!!!!ya!!!!!

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-28-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stock_hippie

wow...what if you LIKE it???!!!!!!ya!!!!!

like i have said before , the word on the street is these are the best
sounding amps that blend the 70s and 80s into one amp , the reviews
on these thing are very good .
so i hope it rocks like thet say it should.

steelhorse · 12-28-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOT TUBES 70

NEW INFO !!!!!!!!!!

I have convinced my tech pal who works at the music store that there is something
not rihgt with the vintage modern amp on the floor , he said he would look at it right
after the xmas break. so maybe , just maybe i can have a real listen to a vintage modern
amp the way its ment to be !!!

Take a look at the vintage modern thread and recommend they re-bias and re-tube pre amp. Everyone who's tried the pre amp tube tweak loves it even more after the fact. The pre amp tubes are pretty common except for the balanced for the V4. That small investment in time and parts should yield better sales

In a nutshell it's a regular EHX in V1, high gain JJ ECC83S's in V2 & V3, and another high gain ECC83S -balanced- in V4.

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-28-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

Take a look at the vintage modern thread and recommend they re-bias and re-tube pre amp. Everyone who's tried the pre amp tube tweak loves it even more after the fact. The pre amp tubes are pretty common except for the balanced for the V4. That small investment in time and parts should yield better sales

In a nutshell it's a regular EHX in V1, high gain JJ ECC83S's in V2 & V3, and another high gain ECC83S -balanced- in V4.

i will mention it to him , good info about the tubes eh!!!
he will not have any jj tubes , what would you use instead in v2 , v3 , v4 , he will have
sovtek or groove tube , thats the choice at his shop.

stock_hippie · 12-28-2008, 09:47 PM

just played a gig outdoor...my sound man amped up the vocals and turned my Marshall way way down...i thought i was doomed...but i just heard the recording... and it was great...he has a good ear and likes Marshall amps a ton!!!....i always go with the sound man....

steelhorse · 12-29-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOT TUBES 70

i will mention it to him , good info about the tubes eh!!!
he will not have any jj tubes , what would you use instead in v2 , v3 , v4 , he will have
sovtek or groove tube , thats the choice at his shop.

groove tubes

psphill27 · 12-29-2008, 10:03 AM

+1 on Groove Tubes...I have them in my DSL 401 and my DSL 50 and love them. Killer tone...

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-29-2008, 01:52 PM

years ago the tube i liked the best in my 2210 800 was the svetlana EL34 , great tube.

stock_hippie · 12-29-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOT TUBES 70

years ago the tube i liked the best in my 2210 800 was the svetlana EL34 , great tube.

HOT TUBES...this guy is plaYYing a jcm 800 2210!!!
hows this for t0nE????????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvhMy...eature=related

steelhorse · 12-29-2008, 10:15 PM

This is the info the dealer needed Hot Tubes:

These amps have internal test points. They look like three pins, the middle pin is ground, the right pin is for the right pair of tubes and left pin is for the left pair of tubes. Right next to the test points is the trim pot, it controls the bias for both tubes. Set it so that each side reads around 48mV. It appears that there is some error between the two test points so as long as they are within 5mV you will be fine.

If using a bias probe then anywhere between about 35 and 42mA per tube is fine.

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-29-2008, 11:39 PM

all say !!!!!
thanks again !!!

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-30-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stock_hippie

HOT TUBES...this guy is plaYYing a jcm 800 2210!!!
hows this for t0nE????????
YouTube - JCM800 normal channel tests

i would have thought he'd give it more gain/ overdrive , my 2210 had
a ton of gain , you could play heavy rock with that amp , and no o/d
pedals !

stock_hippie · 12-30-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOT TUBES 70

i would have thought he'd give it more gain/ overdrive , my 2210 had
a ton of gain , you could play heavy rock with that amp , and no o/d
pedals !

sheesh...i thought that was GAIN....!!??...you mean ther's more gain??love it love it must have it!!!

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-30-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stock_hippie

sheesh...i thought that was GAIN....!!??...you mean ther's more gain??love it love it must have it!!!

unless i was not hearing it right.

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-30-2008, 10:57 PM

NEW NEWS

my tech. friend at the music store is going to look at the vm on friday , so maybe
saturday i could have a real listen to a vintage monster !!!!! LOL!!!!!

STEELHORSE...... i told him about the tube thing and he did not think that the
store would shell out for new tubes , because its a new amp , but maybe the
tubes are screwed and they may need to be replaced , thats what i would
like to see IMO.

steelhorse · 12-30-2008, 11:09 PM

They don't have to shell out for new tubes. Just put them in there and if they improve the tone leave them in and advertise it as such and raise the price a little or remove them but it's for comparison sake.

Also be sure to advise him about the bias issue. The internal leads are off and he has to adjust to take this in to account or do what I did and use a bias probe.

stock_hippie · 12-31-2008, 12:09 AM

who ever heard of a amp you have to mess with...????lol

stock_hippie · 12-31-2008, 12:13 AM

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO THE FORUM!!!what about
HAPPPPPPY NEW YEarrrrrrr....braHHHHHhhh!!!!!

steelhorse · 12-31-2008, 01:58 AM

All tube amps need to be 'messed with' to some degree. Tubes aren't like SS which are plug and pray!

HOT TUBES 70 · 12-31-2008, 08:36 AM

i told him what you said , he said that he has seen that alot in various amps ,so
he's got personal notes about many amps , but he did not know about the vm
being off , i said to have someone play test it to get it right on , even if you
have to do it over a few times , that would be the only way to get it right IMO!

steelhorse · 12-31-2008, 07:03 PM

Cool. Hope he follows your suggestions and that you take your own guitar(s) this time too!

12-25-2008, 11:43 PM	#94 (permalink)
stock_hippie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 626	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? .cool posts guys

12-27-2008, 12:49 AM	#97 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? Exactly and that's why I am considering doing the gig part time for this particular dealer. We have a lot in common, the same age and he and his family are just solid down to earth folks so for them to show an interest is not something I'm taking lightly and just goes to show his commitment to customer service. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

12-28-2008, 02:20 PM	#99 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? NEW INFO !!!!!!!!!! I have convinced my tech pal who works at the music store that there is something not rihgt with the vintage modern amp on the floor , he said he would look at it right after the xmas break. so maybe , just maybe i can have a real listen to a vintage modern amp the way its ment to be !!!

12-28-2008, 09:47 PM	#104 (permalink)
stock_hippie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 626	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? just played a gig outdoor...my sound man amped up the vocals and turned my Marshall way way down...i thought i was doomed...but i just heard the recording... and it was great...he has a good ear and likes Marshall amps a ton!!!....i always go with the sound man....

12-29-2008, 10:03 AM	#106 (permalink)
psphill27 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 270	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? +1 on Groove Tubes...I have them in my DSL 401 and my DSL 50 and love them. Killer tone...

12-29-2008, 01:52 PM	#107 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? years ago the tube i liked the best in my 2210 800 was the svetlana EL34 , great tube.

12-29-2008, 10:15 PM	#109 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? This is the info the dealer needed Hot Tubes: These amps have internal test points. They look like three pins, the middle pin is ground, the right pin is for the right pair of tubes and left pin is for the left pair of tubes. Right next to the test points is the trim pot, it controls the bias for both tubes. Set it so that each side reads around 48mV. It appears that there is some error between the two test points so as long as they are within 5mV you will be fine. If using a bias probe then anywhere between about 35 and 42mA per tube is fine. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

12-29-2008, 11:39 PM	#110 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? all say !!!!! thanks again !!!

12-30-2008, 10:57 PM	#114 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? NEW NEWS my tech. friend at the music store is going to look at the vm on friday , so maybe saturday i could have a real listen to a vintage monster !!!!! LOL!!!!! STEELHORSE...... i told him about the tube thing and he did not think that the store would shell out for new tubes , because its a new amp , but maybe the tubes are screwed and they may need to be replaced , thats what i would like to see IMO.

12-30-2008, 11:09 PM	#115 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? They don't have to shell out for new tubes. Just put them in there and if they improve the tone leave them in and advertise it as such and raise the price a little or remove them but it's for comparison sake. Also be sure to advise him about the bias issue. The internal leads are off and he has to adjust to take this in to account or do what I did and use a bias probe. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

12-31-2008, 12:09 AM	#116 (permalink)
stock_hippie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 626	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? who ever heard of a amp you have to mess with...????lol

12-31-2008, 12:13 AM	#117 (permalink)
stock_hippie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 626	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? MERRY CHRISTMAS TO THE FORUM!!!what about HAPPPPPPY NEW YEarrrrrrr....braHHHHHhhh!!!!!

12-31-2008, 01:58 AM	#118 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? All tube amps need to be 'messed with' to some degree. Tubes aren't like SS which are plug and pray! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

12-31-2008, 08:36 AM	#119 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? i told him what you said , he said that he has seen that alot in various amps ,so he's got personal notes about many amps , but he did not know about the vm being off , i said to have someone play test it to get it right on , even if you have to do it over a few times , that would be the only way to get it right IMO!

12-31-2008, 07:03 PM	#120 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: did HOT TUBES try out a VM yet? Cool. Hope he follows your suggestions and that you take your own guitar(s) this time too! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

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