HOT TUBES 70

i thought that steve vai played on the skyscraper .
and i was under the impession that becker used ADA rack stuff , but i could
be wrong on that .

Marshall Amps

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Adwex

Jason Becker? I think you meant Steve Vai.

*edit* oops, hot tubes beat me to it.

Hollowbody

That was Steve Vai.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

HOT TUBES 70

i think becker was like 15 when skyscraper came out , or something like that !!!

Hollowbody

Yep.

I went through a serious problem during one musical phase in my life. I heard Steve Vai one time and I was hooked. I had to learn everything about that guy. All I did for 2 years is listen to and read about Vai. It was a good learning experience but sometimes I feel like I had tunnel vision.

Since I was a kid I have always loved all kinds of music, Jazz, New Age, Classical, Rock, Brit Rock (old and new) Metal, some Techno, Mowtown and everything in between but those two years it was like I was in some kind of trance.

Anyway, Those diodes are on order.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

Hollowbody

... grasshoppers chirping in the background.

Don't get me wrong fellas. Vai kicks serious ass. I still have all his albums.
I'd like to see him live sometime.

Actually, G3 would be cool, I couldn't decide Between Satch -Vai and Johnson
or Satch-Vai and Petrucci, I really dig Malmsteen but I didn't like some of his interaction with the other two.

I would also loved to have seen Clapton, Paige and Beck but that's another story.

Soooo, we good?

Diodes will be delivered with some new pots, they are showing their age.

Thanks for all the help. And if you ever see me on a small tour with an R&B group, don't worry, there WILL be a Marshall in the truck.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

stargazer76

What's happ'nin sojatriani?
I live in north Dallas, And am refurbishing my 900-4100. Re-tube, bias, mod maybe? I would love to get a few of those references. I am only aware of one tech on Commerce in Dallas. Really would like a choice........
Also, for any and all out there, the diode clipping I assume is accomplished by the four LED's in the preamp section? But there is also a diode bridge just after the boost channels IC6. What's that for? What mods can be done on the diode clipping part to make it sound smoother?
Thanks sojatriani!

Bluesfella

Hi guys, I ran into this thread through Google. It's a very interesting read. I didn't knew all this about distortion. I currently have the Kustom 100DFX. A 100W solid state 212 combo. I bought it in the first place because it sounded almost as warm as a tube amp, and after reading some of the posts here, I understand why. Many solid states sound dead and lifeless compared to it. The clean is really clean, and the distortion rocks. Really nice vintage rock sound. I love it, it never let me down and it's scary loud. But, every time I plug my Strat into a true tube amp, I know that I'm missing something.


So, I'm about to buy my first tube amp, and I decided it has to be a Marshall. I tried many beautiful amps out there but the Marshalls always have something unique about them. I love the sound of the eighties rock bands. I'm a huge fan of Slash's sound, so I automatically thought of the JCM800. I asked a guy about it and he told me the following.

The early model with one channel (2203 and 2204 I believe) can be modded with an extra tube to get the "Appetite for Destruction" sound. The later models with two channels can't, because they have this diode bridge distortion. This puzzled me because I've also read somewhere that Slash used the 2225 Silver amps on the Use Your Illusion albums, which I read here use that diode bridge distortion also.

I'm looking for a mean, gnarling distortion sound, that also sounds very 'tubey'. Listen to the solo on "back off bitch" to hear what I mean, it's almost hollow sounding. Not looking for fat, bassy (nu)metal sounds. I want a thin, mean, warm TUBE sound.

But, I'd also like to know how good this amp is suited for subtle blues stuff. I like turning down the volume on my guitar to get a bluesy sound.


I'm currently looking at the combo version, the 4210 (same amp as the 2210). I don't have the room and money for a seperate head + cab. Besides, a cab can always later be added because the amps themselves are the same (I've been told). I can get one 2nd hand for €450, but totally trashed and with needed maintence and tube replacement. How good of a deal is this?

The 2555 I don't even mention. I'm still a college guy with no money and a love for Rock & Roll, haha. Maybe someday.

Bluesfella

No comments?

Hollowbody

I saw your comment and I was waiting for the others. Trust me they will get to you. Plus, evidently I have too much to say.

In this thread I had made a comment about adding a tube in place of the diodes on one of my channels but I won't persue that idea without my tech. I am going to make a call after I try the diodes and see what he says.

All I am doing is waiting on my diodes via "snailmail". I'll just pull the old ones pop in the new and see how it sounds. I'm doing it this way so I will learn, otherwise I would forgo the diodes and go straight to a tube. But if this improves the sound then I will keep it that way for a while.

I had a 2210. It was touch sensitive to a point but I sold it and started modding my Jubilee.

On my amp I did two things to help the touch sensitive aspect in addition to being able to back off my volume and get more of a blues tone.

In my first preamp slot I put a 5751 which will work in a 12ax7 circuit . That backed off the gain just slightly but made it sound more transparent and responsive when I used my GTR volume.

Then my tech pulled the solid state rectifier and droped in a tube. There was more to it but that was basically the mod.

I did it because of how a power tube can draw from the rectifier. If a rectifier will supply voltage quickly then that shortens the rise time so there won't be any sag, or very little. SS rectifiers will provide immediate voltage to the tubes.

A tube rectifier will take longer and change the sustain and feel of an amp because it takes longer to supply the voltage needed, approx. 1/2 to almost a full second.

That is a very crude neanderthal explanation of one of the mods done to my amp to make it fit my needs. Having this done is contingent upon the ability of the amp.

Some will say that ss rectifiers are more reliable. I have never had a problem whith my 5AR4. Giving a tube rectifier an implied unreliability is about the same as also tagging power and preamp tubes with negative stigma.

See? I warned you, I seem to have too much to say these days.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

steelhorse

Kinda curious about how you equated Slash with the JCM800?

Save up for a used vintage modern. Why used? Because it will already have the kins worked out of it if any existed hopefully, be broken in, and be cheaper AND it will still be under warranty since the warranty is 5 years and transferable.

That's the amps Slash uses nowadays.

And it's far cheaper the a Jubilee no doubt!

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"I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

HOT TUBES 70

the jubs are a kin to the 800 chassis , are they not ?

Hollowbody

It is, but maybe Bluesfella is referring to "Appetite For Destruction".

Actually he is, I had to re-read his post.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

Adwex

As far as I know, the Jub's and the 800's power section are very similar, if not the same. The Jub's preamp is what makes it stand out.

coldsteal2

go for it, you wont be disapointed

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

Hollowbody

That's what I thought.

Besides, Slash didn't use a Jubilee for their first album.

He used a 100W Marshall Super Tremolo Model 1959T pre-master volume model. Marshall manufactured and shiped the silver only in 1987 and did the same with the black ones in 1988.

Guns and Roses recorded Appetite between Aug. and Dec. of 1986 so it would have been impossible. I can see where Bluesfella is coming from especially since many people associate with that first GnR breakthrough album.

Slash did use the Jubilee almost exclusively after that, even his signature amp was a reissue Jubilee.
I'm stating the obvious.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

coldsteal2

back in the 80's most of us had Super Leads, or other Plexi's
mainly because they were the only ones we could afford
but they sure sounded great

(back in those days a used Plexi was pretty cheap)

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

Hollowbody

Yeah, those were the days. I'm still ignorant when it comes to a plexi. Never had the opportunity nor was it necessary but it would be nice to have one.

Funny thing, I read that the amp Slash used was a metal panel.

I'm not a Slash groupie, I only had that first album. I guess I remember almost everything I read.

...geez, a lot of good it has done me.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

jcmjmp

That's what Slash used for Appetite for Destruction.

Live, I believe that Slash has always brought out a JCM 800 on the road with him, in combination with the Jubilee, but I'm no Slash expert. One thing is for sure, AFD doesn't have the Jubilee on it.

steelhorse

Yeah I see that but that's just for that album and he rented a bunch of different amps for AFD IIRC and according to his bio it was catch as catch could because the place(s) they rented their gear from didn't always have the same stuff available from one session to the next, and it certainly is not the amp he is synonymous with as an artist.

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Garmopat Pedal Mods

"I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

jcmjmp

The Jubilee IS a JCM 800 2204/2203, with some mods. The power section is identical. The differences are in the preamp section.

A relay to switch between an extra gain stage or not.
The extra clipping via diodes (LEDs).
Some minor mods to get more juice out of the 12AX7s (Pretty sure its V2)
A slightly revised EQ.
An Effect loop.

steelhorse

And they have totally different tonal characteristics.

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Garmopat Pedal Mods

"I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

HOT TUBES 70

true story ........even when my pals jub was tuned up and sounding good my
2210 sounded as good , it had more gain for sure. my pal always liked the
sound of my 2210 better .


don't matter really ......as long as they MARSHALL on them ........its all good !!!!

Hollowbody

I still don't get the logic here, why are you so curious?

You say you don't understand how someone is able to equate Slash with a JCM800 at the same time point out that he is synonymous with the Jubilee but also cite Slash as having used all these different amps?

None of this is contradictory but it does prove a couple of things.

The obvious is that this amp is only part of his tone.

Also, likely or not if Bluesfella managed to find a great deal on an amp to have modded for a certain tone then he should. Nothing against the Vintage Modern and getting a used one is a good idea but sometimes there could be more options if he keeps his eyes open

We all know Slash identifies with the Jubilee but I wouldn't get tunnel vision. I have no intention of trying to sound like him and I use a Jubilee.

__________________
"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

jcmjmp

Yeah. Same here. I really like the Jubilee but I sound nothing like Slash, nor do I want to sound like him.

Hollowbody

Yeah, hopefully people won't want to sound like anyone else unless they are doing covers or it's just a starting point for their own sound which isin't a bad idea. I just came off a 72 hour Alice in Chains binge, which, no offense to anyone this is just my opinion KILLS GnR, very tempting to copy. Could be apples and oranges I don't know. Actually I switch between Alice and Al Di Meola all day, I do that, like to break it up a little.I know they used Bogners, wonder if they used any Marshalls too.

Those diodes have arrived, I'm all excited so I am putting it out on this forum before I even install. I have to use the amp on Mon. and Tue. so I'm not taking a chance screwing it up till Wed.



I'm very happy right now. Marshalls are without question and beyond doubt the king of amplifiers.

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"Just because a tube will fit in a socket does not mean it will work." MartyStrat54

WrenchDevil6

This thread should be a sticky.

joshuaaewallen

Marshall Amplification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... Is this true? Contrary to everything I have been told about the JCM2000 series regarding the use of diode clipping, Wikipedia says, "Marshall currently produces a wide range of amps with the distinctive looks and sound of the Marshall valve amp. The longest running "current" model is the JCM2000 range, which is split into the two channel and three channel series, known as the Dual and Triple Super Leads respectively. These amps are a continuation of the JCM800 and 900 series, although the controversial diode clipping circuit used in the later 800 and 900 amps has been removed in favor of additional valve gain stages."

What's the skinny on this?

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Josh

2004 PRS Custom 24 10 Top
1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 122
- Power Tubes: JJ EL34L's
- Assorted New & Vintage pre-amp tubes... I like to roll...
HardWire DL-8 Delay/Looper


http://irkinempire.spaces.live.com/
http://irkinempireoutpost1977.blogspot.com/

"... When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Futurama

WrenchDevil6

SL-X and every non SS/VS Marshall after it.

jcmjmp

The JCM 800 2210/2205 and the JCM 900 (except the SL-X) all had diodes in the signal path to add more clipping, as did the Silver Jubilee and JCM Slash.

The JCM 2000 series was the first line of amplifiers that re-introduced the all valve signal path with no diode clipping. Bufferring of the effects loop and reverb circuit use solid state devices but these devices are not used for tone shaping purposes.