What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? - Page 2

***Adwex*** · 10-14-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

I've had the same Jubilee you have and the JCM 900 SLX-2100 blew the Jubilee out of the water with the bass after the complete re-tube with the high gain JJ kit which included the hand picked pre amp tubes, 1 balanced for the phase inverter and the matched quad of E34L's. It has enough bass that I no longer use the EQ w/it.

Bear in mind that the model I have doesn't have the diode clipping as it uses an additional pre amp tube for more gain, but yeah this amp has lots more balls than the Jubilee and the Jubilee wasn't bad either.

Tone wise it's the apples and oranges thing. The Jubilee is old school and tuned more for the vintage vibe. Great tone no doubt about it, but the SLX 2100 is a monster. Roll the gain back and it's right there for blues, crank it up and you have metal.

It's as hand made and built as were the Jubilees.

imo the SLX-2100 is unheralded, but a few noteworthy bands used them, the most notable was KISS.

I don't disrespect the SLX, as it is a different animal than the 4500 I had.
The 4500 (50watt, 2 channel, reverb head) is garbage, unless you use it for a clean sound, and even that was thin. The SLX is way above it, but does it blow the Jub out of the water? I don't think anything can. It would be a heckuva fun fight though, too bad we can't have a duel LOL.

codyfarmer · 10-14-2008, 03:23 PM

I tried a 900 before I bought my Jubilee...I think the best way to describe it is "dodged a bullet." If I had to sell every toy I have, the Jubilee would be the last choice. Absolutely the best amp I've ever used.

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 03:39 PM

I for one don't ever use a distortion or drive pedal. Nowadays I use my guitar and my playing to drive it that little bit more myself. I endorse tube gain and live it.

So you're comparing the diode clipping to a screamer?

mmorse · 10-14-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

They hear that term and it's like bad juju or something which is silly.

The JCM900 in the hands of the right player is an awesome instrument. It helps to have the correct tubes in them and an EQ but it has lots of sweet gain imo.

KISS used them for a number of years: Marshall JCM900 SL-X Master Volume Amp

and they were the non reverb model

this is another under rated amp

No diodes in the SL-X. It has an extra gain stage.

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmorse

No diodes in the SL-X. It has an extra gain stage.

Uh, yeah I already know this, I was referring to the 900 series in general are under rated

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adwex

I don't disrespect the SLX, as it is a different animal than the 4500 I had.
The 4500 (50watt, 2 channel, reverb head) is garbage, unless you use it for a clean sound, and even that was thin. The SLX is way above it, but does it blow the Jub out of the water? I don't think anything can. It would be a heckuva fun fight though, too bad we can't have a duel LOL.

The SLX blew the 2555 away with the BASS after the tube rehaul.

It's also more versatile in the sense that it can address more genres, HOWEVER with respect to the TONE from the Jubilee, that my friend it owns most other amps, in that I wholeheartedly agree.

mmorse · 10-14-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

Uh, yeah I already know this, I was referring to the 900 series in general are under rated

You might but others, who are not that familiar with the 900 series may not. The first line in your post: "They hear that term and it's like bad juju or something which is silly." refers to the "term" diode clipping. At least that's how I read it. You then mention the SL-X. The implication, at least, is the SL-X also has diodes. Not trying to cause a problem. Just trying to clarify for anyone who may have also interpreted your post the way I did.

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 06:37 PM

Yeah but if you read thru the thread you'll see that this has already been addressed a few times, and once again here as well.

It still is 'silly' the Jubilee series has diode clipping but you don't see people turning their noses up at that thing. Besides anything can be modified and changed including the diode in any JCM900 which has them.

I also edited my earlier post which I apologize for not being more specific.

It is now specific about the SLX being diode free.

Also whenever folks lambaste the 900 they don't exclude the SLX, they're all lumped in together as 'bad' amps which is ludicrous because I've heard many unmodded 900's that have the diode clipping stage and they rocked the house.

just saying.....

travismbrown · 10-14-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojatriani

Hey, I am in Fort Worth, We have a gazillion techs here. Cruise up 35, I can give you about fifty names of great techs, there is a shop in Arlington who does great work, they did work for Dimebag, Eric johnson, etc...

Who is the best and closest to Waco?

How long does it take?

What are typical prices for this sorta thing, like a retube and mods?

Thanks, I trust no one in Waco with my gear

mmorse · 10-14-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

I for one don't ever use a distortion or drive pedal. Nowadays I use my guitar and my playing to drive it that little bit more myself. I endorse tube gain and live it.

So you're comparing the diode clipping to a screamer?

Marshall saw that many players were hitting their 800s (2203s/2204s mostly) with TS pedals and the like for extra gain. So they decided to build a pedal, so to speak, into the amp. They introduced the concept with the Jubilee in '87 and continued it with the "normal " (black tolex jubes) in '88 and '89 and right on into the 900 series.

travismbrown · 10-14-2008, 06:42 PM

WHY WONT MARSHALL REISSUE THE SILVER JUBILEE SERIES??

does anyone know if they plan on doing this or is the VM going to be as close as we get? I for one would be very happy to purchase the jubilee as a brand spanking new reissue!

What about you guys?

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 06:50 PM

Hell yes I would! I just don't think they could call it the 'silver' jubilee series, but maybe a jubilee re-issue?

Marshall should consider doing virtual remakes of several of their great amps. They re-issued the 800's why not the 6100 and the 2555 etc.

Would be far less expensive, but for that same tone? Absofreakinglutely!

mmorse · 10-14-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

Yeah but if you read thru the thread you'll see that this has already been addressed a few times, and once again here as well.

It still is 'silly' the Jubilee series has diode clipping but you don't see people turning their noses up at that thing. Besides anything can be modified and changed including the diode in any JCM900 which has them.

I also edited my earlier post which I apologize for not being more specific.

It is now specific about the SLX being diode free.

Also whenever folks lambaste the 900 they don't exclude the SLX, they're all lumped in together as 'bad' amps which is ludicrous because I've heard many unmodded 900's that have the diode clipping stage and they rocked the house.

just saying.....

No worries. The 900s do get a bad rap. IMO, the SL-X is a nice sounding amp. More of a modern sound than older Marshalls but nice non the less.

I think Jubes get a pass because:

1. You have the collector mentality at work that drives up the price so they must be real good

2. They have the stock 800 power amp section and can be dialed in to sound much like a normal MV 800.

To hear some people talk, the last great sounding Marshall was a '68 plexi. It wasn't too long ago that 800s were considered crap. But as the years pass and the older amps get stupidly expense, suddenly the later series become more revered. It's probably just a matter of time before the 900 series amps become more desirable.

I had an '89 2550 (50 watt Jube in normal dress) and an '83 2204. I'm an old school rock tone type of guy and I could never really bond with the Jube. I ended up selling it and kept the 2204. Of course, tone is very subjective so whatever floats your boat in the end.

mmorse · 10-14-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travismbrown

WHY WONT MARSHALL REISSUE THE SILVER JUBILEE SERIES??

does anyone know if they plan on doing this or is the VM going to be as close as we get? I for one would be very happy to purchase the jubilee as a brand spanking new reissue!

What about you guys?

They did with the 2555SL "Slash" head and cab. They kept it as a limited edition though. I think they made 3000.

As far as a Jube re-issue, they probably think you can already get the same tones with a DSL, JVM or VM. I'm not saying that's the case. Just saying that's what they might be thinking. Though, with the rep the Jube has, it might be a good marketing move.

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 06:59 PM

That 83 2204 is a highly coveted amp nowadays and you're right, there was a time that you couldn't give the thing away, well, not anymore!

I had a 2555 1/2 stack I bought brand new in 87 and the only reason I sold it was because the wife of a guy I worked with at the time (It was a surprise birthday gift for him) liked the color! None of my musician buddies or their friends were even remotely interested at the time. They were all keen on my Boogie!

I bought a mint 2555 half stack about a month ago I guess it was and got it for a steal. Heck I even offered the dealer to let me sell it for him without me having to lay any money out for it, and if I sold it (the head only) I keep the cab and we split the profit, he said no and I nearly tripled my money on the head alone, so you have a point about the collectible part.

In that sense doing a RI of the 6100 and the Jubilee's would be a great marketing move.

mmorse · 10-14-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhorse

That 83 2204 is a highly coveted amp nowadays and you're right, there was a time that you couldn't give the thing away, well, not anymore!

I had a 2555 1/2 stack I bought brand new in 87 and the only reason I sold it was because the wife of a guy I worked with at the time (It was a surprise birthday gift for him) liked the color! None of my musician buddies or their friends were even remotely interested at the time. They were all keen on my Boogie!

I bought a mint 2555 half stack about a month ago I guess it was and got it for a steal. Heck I even offered the dealer to let me sell it for him without me having to lay any money out for it, and if I sold it (the head only) I keep the cab and we split the profit, he said no and I nearly tripled my money on the head alone, so you have a point about the collectible part.

In that sense doing a RI of the 6100 and the Jubilee's would be a great marketing move.

When I got the '83, it was kind of a mess. Lot's of oxidation like it had been sitting in somebodies basement for years. I did a couple of Tone Lizard mods and filled it full of old Mullards (pre and power), and have been using it ever since. I've dumped all my other amps and kept the 800. Everytime I start gassin for something else, I just strap on the old LP ('73 goldtop) and plugin to the 800. The gas pains subside.

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 07:20 PM

Very cool morse. What's the other amp? I see 2 amps in your avatar.

mmorse · 10-14-2008, 07:31 PM

The one on top is the 2204. the one on the bottom was the 2550. The 412 is also gone now. Trying to keep only what I use. Guess I should change my Avatar.

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 08:13 PM

Yeah and feature the 73 goldtop!

HOT TUBES 70 · 10-14-2008, 09:11 PM

thats the great thing about the LM6100 if you need more gain , its just a
channel away, i have some pedals but the get used very little only for
lo volume home use . i agree most pedals tend to take away the warmth.

coldsteal2 · 10-14-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelMorgan

What I find quite funny is how people will absolutely say how tube overdrive is the best and all sorts of stuff like that, then have no qualms about sticking a bunch of solid state overdrive and distortion pedals in front of their amp. So you've got an all tube cascading gain circuit and you stick a tubescreamer in fron of it to tighten it up or push it that little bit more. So yeah, why not put one directly inside the amp?

I'm telling ya! i run into it just about every day
on forums.
They buy reissue guitars, with vintage pickups,
wiring, capacitors and pots, NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.
Then have to have a vintage tube amp or reissue amp (PTP or nothing)
then put 25 transistor stomp boxes in between their guitar and their
vintage amp then whine about a diode in a 900.....

go figure

(dodges tomatoes)

steelhorse · 10-14-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldsteal2

I'm telling ya! i run into it just about every day
on forums.
They buy reissue guitars, with vintage pickups,
wiring, capacitors and pots, NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.
Then have to have a vintage tube amp or reissue amp (PTP or nothing)
then put 25 transistor stomp boxes in between their guitar and their
vintage amp then whine about a diode in a 900.....

go figure

(dodges tomatoes)

That's some true shit there bro.

guitarweasel · 10-15-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldsteal2

I'm telling ya! i run into it just about every day
on forums.
They buy reissue guitars, with vintage pickups,
wiring, capacitors and pots, NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.
Then have to have a vintage tube amp or reissue amp (PTP or nothing)
then put 25 transistor stomp boxes in between their guitar and their
vintage amp then whine about a diode in a 900.....

go figure

(dodges tomatoes)

Agrees 100%

HOT TUBES 70 · 10-15-2008, 12:27 AM

for fun around here i mod various pedals for guys and what i found is that
certain diodes sound different that others , and my experience is that if
you find those clipping diodes in the pre amp and change them to a better
type and grade , it will alter the tone . member i had this done to my 2205
jcm 800 , after it was done , i was totally impressed .

sojatriani · 10-15-2008, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adwex

I don't disrespect the SLX, as it is a different animal than the 4500 I had.
The 4500 (50watt, 2 channel, reverb head) is garbage, unless you use it for a clean sound, and even that was thin. The SLX is way above it, but does it blow the Jub out of the water? I don't think anything can. It would be a heckuva fun fight though, too bad we can't have a duel LOL.

The 4500 is garbage, OK...

The 900 series diode clipping heads are the best sounding JCMs in my opinion. I'll take a 4500 anyday over any DSL/TSL or 800. Don't disrepect the 900. ZZtop used them on the Recycler Tour, I don't think they would take junk on the road with them.

sojatriani · 10-15-2008, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travismbrown

Who is the best and closest to Waco?

How long does it take?

What are typical prices for this sorta thing, like a retube and mods?

Thanks, I trust no one in Waco with my gear

I'll PM you some names and #'s and you can speak to them directly. Some good guys.

HOT TUBES 70 · 10-15-2008, 01:18 AM

OK! the gloves are off!!!
get the needle out of your arm pal.....the 2203 or the 2210 will easily
hold there own against any 900 if heard .

sojatriani · 10-15-2008, 01:31 AM

Again, I, as in ME, like the 900 series the best, needle in my arm, come on ,this is a forumn, expressing opinons, not taking childish shots at people, I am 45 years old and have owned alot of diff. Marshalls, I , personally like the 900s the better than the 800s. So now I have a needle in my arm.....come on guy. Not cool at all. Personally my favorite is the 6100LM. I do not like the 800 series at all, any of them, I love the Jubilees' and the Vintage Modern as well. (pulling needle out of arm...)

steelhorse · 10-15-2008, 01:48 AM

I'd love to own a vintage 2203 with the vertical inputs so I could toy around with it and try to grasp what all the fuss is about because straight up, I've never been around a vintage or RI 800 I preferred over my SLX.

I also think the Jubilee and VM's kick butt in their own way. They're not for every application as are most amps but they definitely have a groove all their own.

HOT TUBES 70 · 10-15-2008, 02:04 AM

OK!!! i was only joking around with the "needle' comment , my comment was out of line and i apologize , on to the business at hand .......some of the most respected tones to come from marshall have been from the 800 series
amps , not very often do read about a 900 series amp crushing the competion. but with that said , you must know good tone if you like the
lm6100 amps .so if you like the sound of your 900 thats all that matters ..

10-14-2008, 03:23 PM	#32 (permalink)
codyfarmer Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 110	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? I tried a 900 before I bought my Jubilee...I think the best way to describe it is "dodged a bullet." If I had to sell every toy I have, the Jubilee would be the last choice. Absolutely the best amp I've ever used. __________________ I play guitar and wakeboard alot...actually, wakeboarding is my job, guitar is my hobby. Current gear: Marshall JCM2000 DSL50 Marshall Silver Jubilee 2555 '79 Fender Twin Reverb Marshall 1960BX cab Gibson Les Paul Standard (probably the heaviest one ever, 10.6lbs) Fender American Stratocaster Martin DM

10-14-2008, 03:39 PM	#33 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? I for one don't ever use a distortion or drive pedal. Nowadays I use my guitar and my playing to drive it that little bit more myself. I endorse tube gain and live it. So you're comparing the diode clipping to a screamer? __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

10-14-2008, 06:37 PM	#38 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? Yeah but if you read thru the thread you'll see that this has already been addressed a few times, and once again here as well. It still is 'silly' the Jubilee series has diode clipping but you don't see people turning their noses up at that thing. Besides anything can be modified and changed including the diode in any JCM900 which has them. I also edited my earlier post which I apologize for not being more specific. It is now specific about the SLX being diode free. Also whenever folks lambaste the 900 they don't exclude the SLX, they're all lumped in together as 'bad' amps which is ludicrous because I've heard many unmodded 900's that have the diode clipping stage and they rocked the house. just saying..... __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

10-14-2008, 06:42 PM	#41 (permalink)
travismbrown Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 44	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? WHY WONT MARSHALL REISSUE THE SILVER JUBILEE SERIES?? does anyone know if they plan on doing this or is the VM going to be as close as we get? I for one would be very happy to purchase the jubilee as a brand spanking new reissue! What about you guys?

10-14-2008, 06:50 PM	#42 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? Hell yes I would! I just don't think they could call it the 'silver' jubilee series, but maybe a jubilee re-issue? Marshall should consider doing virtual remakes of several of their great amps. They re-issued the 800's why not the 6100 and the 2555 etc. Would be far less expensive, but for that same tone? Absofreakinglutely! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

10-14-2008, 06:59 PM	#45 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? That 83 2204 is a highly coveted amp nowadays and you're right, there was a time that you couldn't give the thing away, well, not anymore! I had a 2555 1/2 stack I bought brand new in 87 and the only reason I sold it was because the wife of a guy I worked with at the time (It was a surprise birthday gift for him) liked the color! None of my musician buddies or their friends were even remotely interested at the time. They were all keen on my Boogie! I bought a mint 2555 half stack about a month ago I guess it was and got it for a steal. Heck I even offered the dealer to let me sell it for him without me having to lay any money out for it, and if I sold it (the head only) I keep the cab and we split the profit, he said no and I nearly tripled my money on the head alone, so you have a point about the collectible part. In that sense doing a RI of the 6100 and the Jubilee's would be a great marketing move. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

10-14-2008, 07:20 PM	#47 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? Very cool morse. What's the other amp? I see 2 amps in your avatar. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

10-14-2008, 07:31 PM	#48 (permalink)
mmorse Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 122	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? The one on top is the 2204. the one on the bottom was the 2550. The 412 is also gone now. Trying to keep only what I use. Guess I should change my Avatar.

10-14-2008, 08:13 PM	#49 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? Yeah and feature the 73 goldtop! __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

10-14-2008, 09:11 PM	#50 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? thats the great thing about the LM6100 if you need more gain , its just a channel away, i have some pedals but the get used very little only for lo volume home use . i agree most pedals tend to take away the warmth.

10-15-2008, 12:27 AM	#54 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? for fun around here i mod various pedals for guys and what i found is that certain diodes sound different that others , and my experience is that if you find those clipping diodes in the pre amp and change them to a better type and grade , it will alter the tone . member i had this done to my 2205 jcm 800 , after it was done , i was totally impressed .

10-15-2008, 01:18 AM	#57 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? OK! the gloves are off!!! get the needle out of your arm pal.....the 2203 or the 2210 will easily hold there own against any 900 if heard .

10-15-2008, 01:31 AM	#58 (permalink)
sojatriani Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 279	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? Again, I, as in ME, like the 900 series the best, needle in my arm, come on ,this is a forumn, expressing opinons, not taking childish shots at people, I am 45 years old and have owned alot of diff. Marshalls, I , personally like the 900s the better than the 800s. So now I have a needle in my arm.....come on guy. Not cool at all. Personally my favorite is the 6100LM. I do not like the 800 series at all, any of them, I love the Jubilees' and the Vintage Modern as well. (pulling needle out of arm...) __________________ Marshall 92 JCM 900 4101/running thru 1936 212 cab Marshall 2008 Vintage Modern half stack 1975 VOX AC30 with extension cab Peavey Classic 50 212 combo Peavey Triple XXX 212 combo '85 Les paul '74 strat 2002 American Deluxe Strat/Fat 50's 2004 Richie Sambora Strat 1997 USA Roadhouse Strat 1992 Ibanez RG 550 1996 ESP Eclipse

10-15-2008, 01:48 AM	#59 (permalink)
steelhorse Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,888	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? I'd love to own a vintage 2203 with the vertical inputs so I could toy around with it and try to grasp what all the fuss is about because straight up, I've never been around a vintage or RI 800 I preferred over my SLX. I also think the Jubilee and VM's kick butt in their own way. They're not for every application as are most amps but they definitely have a groove all their own. __________________ www.ricojronline.com 760-956-6619 Garmopat Pedal Mods "I wouldn't mind hearing your head smash through a glass door. That would be cool..." luekmeyer

10-15-2008, 02:04 AM	#60 (permalink)
HOT TUBES 70 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,675	Re: What The Hell Is Diode Clipping???? OK!!! i was only joking around with the "needle' comment , my comment was out of line and i apologize , on to the business at hand .......some of the most respected tones to come from marshall have been from the 800 series amps , not very often do read about a 900 series amp crushing the competion. but with that said , you must know good tone if you like the lm6100 amps .so if you like the sound of your 900 thats all that matters ..

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