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Unread 09-18-2010, 05:58 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Unread 09-18-2010, 05:58 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by RiverRatt View Post
I've seen some videos of the jams he has at his house. He's still got the mojo, I just think he lost the fire back when he looked like Skeletor.
EVH is slightly OT but....

Fire, Mojo, whatever you want to call it, he's lost something. I think 1984 was the last GREAT album, 5150 was good but tone got real processed. I've not bought anything since OU812. Don't think I've missed too much.

Watching him on YouTube is a big disappointment.

Back ON TOPIC:

If tone was ALL IN THE FINGERS - there would be no BROWN SOUND. By the definition of TONE by some: All of Eddie's CD's would have the EXACT SAME TONE because of the EXACT SAME FINGERS.

And we know that simply is not true.
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Unread 09-18-2010, 06:10 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by Michael RT View Post
This is a samick POS plywood guitar and my daughters little amp that she sing through for fun and in my sig their is more videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebjiWvSldOI
This is a GHAY thread! I thought we already squashed this shit!


GHAY!
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Unread 09-18-2010, 06:42 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

I agree with you --that it is all in the hands. But, could you please tell what the RMS Watts of the water cooler is ?
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Unread 09-18-2010, 06:52 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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I agree with you --that it is all in the hands. But, could you please tell what the RMS Watts of the water cooler is ?

Seriously - if it's ALL in the hands, meaning guitars and amps DON'T matter, how can Gibson and Marshall exist?

First Act and Wal Mart would have the market wrapped up!
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Unread 09-18-2010, 09:25 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

The player makes a difference, and the gear makes a difference.

Tone is sum of all the parts of gear, technique, style. For good guitarists, the sum is more than the whole of its parts. For bad guitar players, the sum is less.
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Unread 09-18-2010, 10:42 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by tarznamps View Post
EVH is slightly OT but....

Fire, Mojo, whatever you want to call it, he's lost something. I think 1984 was the last GREAT album, 5150 was good but tone got real processed. I've not bought anything since OU812. Don't think I've missed too much.

Watching him on YouTube is a big disappointment.

Back ON TOPIC:

If tone was ALL IN THE FINGERS - there would be no BROWN SOUND. By the definition of TONE by some: All of Eddie's CD's would have the EXACT SAME TONE because of the EXACT SAME FINGERS.

And we know that simply is not true.
Not off topic. He was brought into this early on page 1, and I commented on it then. There's a YouTube video where he's playing the 1984 Frankenstrat at one of his jams and it sounds like the old Eddie. I think he's the perfect vehicle to demonstrate that tone is NOT in the fingers - it's in mic placement, it's in the amp you use, the cab you use, the speakers you use, the room you're in, even the producer you use, and is further influenced by your style and technique, but hell, even he and Slash have spent their entire careers trying to recapture the magic tone of their first albums.

You're dead-on about his tone changing from one album to another, and that is proof that if you let tone chasing be the entire driving force behind your music, you'll never be satisfied. I never worried about trying to cop someone's tone exactly. If you get somewhere in the ballpark of the equipment they use and play in their style, you will sound somewhat like them even to other guitarists, and the other 99% of your audience won't know the difference.
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That's what I like about you Alan...you got it bad. You're a tube-aholic.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 12:46 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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The player makes a difference, and the gear makes a difference.

Tone is sum of all the parts of gear, technique, style. For good guitarists, the sum is more than the whole of its parts. For bad guitar players, the sum is less.
Exactly...
Angus would sound like Angus playing different amps because he WANTS to sound like himself.
If you gave him a roland jazz chorus and a es330 and told him to play jazz riffs, no one here would know the difference.

Im sure like most of you here you have different gigs right?
I mean my heavy rock band I play a certain way, and in my blues gig, and church sometimes I use different gear, and get different tones.
Studio work over the years will not always make someone a better player, but it will make them play more for what is asked of them.

Should I even have to be explaining why the entire context of the original thread is wrong and seems to have been thought up by someone who possibly works at a guitar center?
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Unread 09-19-2010, 01:06 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

This is rediculous.

Why can't we just agree a certain degree of tone comes from amps, and another degree of it comes from technique and style?

Dear Lord put your tools away and quit pissin' on eachother...
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Unread 09-19-2010, 01:13 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by rocknforchrist View Post
Yes your sound is how you play and project.....but there's something about confidence! I used to play a Twin and i could always hear myself but did'nt "feel it!" Thats why i started playing Marshall....it projects attitude, it cuts through the dim on stage and blows everybody's heads off for the first 6 rows....that makes me feel good about my tone, headless people http://www.marshallforum.com/images/smilies/rock.gif
that was awesomeness! Yeah attitude's important and because i'm a hermit and have ZERO personality (a camera and a resumee would help:wink I can't find a band. I do get alot of "solo" back yard offers,so on. I've never done that though and i'll admit,i'm scared.I LOVE to play but, the confidence is NOT strong with this one.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 01:15 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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This is rediculous.

Why can't we just agree a certain degree of tone comes from amps, and another degree of it comes from technique and style?

Dear Lord put your tools away and quit pissin' on eachother...
this^

'cept i wasn't peeing on people...i'm not into that. Now, the dudes that "rented" videoes from my old job LOVED the "under the counter SPECIALS" which were in that sort of jurisdiction...man i'm glad i sell my soul for money (music)
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Unread 09-19-2010, 01:20 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Indeed el large boobarino!

or gordo tetas el grande
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Unread 09-19-2010, 01:25 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Indeed el large boobarino!

or gordo tetas el grande
you really have no working knowledge of marshall amps or the spanish language do you ???


sorry man it was just there....
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Unread 09-19-2010, 03:05 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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I get you guys completely here and have offered this up before. Style is in the fingers gentlemen. Yea you might be able to produce decent tone with crappy equipment, but that only proves you have good technique. The amp makes a difference, BUT I could still tell if I was playing it because of the way I play... which is not tone, it's style.
Well said.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 03:08 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Well said.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 03:34 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Troo. After all, didn't Jeff Healey (RIP) use a Squier Strat most of the time? Or have I been mis-informed?
Don't confuse the high quality Japanese Fender Squier's of the 80's with the budget line of Chinese Squiers of today.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 05:42 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by PaoloJM View Post
The important derivation from these equations is:
Great player with shit gear >>>>>>>>>> shit player with great gear
THANKS!

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Originally Posted by thrawn86 View Post
Signature gear does not mean you get the signature sound. Go ahead and blow the $8,000 or more on a 2203ZW full stack and the Bullseye Gibson. You're still not going to sound like Zakk. Close, maybe, but it's how you play that makes the tone come alive....the gear responds to it.
Here's exactly what I mean guys!
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Unread 09-19-2010, 05:46 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Again - we're all just arguing over "our" definition of TONE.
Exactly!
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Unread 09-19-2010, 05:50 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by tarznamps View Post
If tone was ALL IN THE FINGERS - there would be no BROWN SOUND. By the definition of TONE by some: All of Eddie's CD's would have the EXACT SAME TONE because of the EXACT SAME FINGERS.

And we know that simply is not true.
Ha! That's it, I didn't mean tone was ALL in the fingers, I think 60% of the tone is the fingers the other 40% is gear.
So yes the amp DOES make a difference, so does the player.
If I'm wrong prove me that you can sound exactly the same as Hendrix!

If tone was not in the hands everybody could sound like EVH. And we'd all be able to play Malmsteen because technique wouldn't be in the hands either then. And we could all have BB's vibrato.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 05:55 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by blues_n_cues View Post
you really have no working knowledge of marshall amps or the spanish language do you ???


sorry man it was just there....
This really made me laugh out loud to a empty room in my house!
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Unread 09-19-2010, 06:36 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by Lespaulnmarshall View Post
Ha! That's it, I didn't mean tone was ALL in the fingers, I think 60% of the tone is the fingers the other 40% is gear.

If I'm wrong prove me that you can sound exactly the same as Hendrix!

If (half of the) tone was not in the hands everybody could sound like EVH. And we'd all be able to play Malmsteen because technique wouldn't be in the hands either then. And we could all have BB's vibrato.
I'd agree with your sentiments but I would say the percentage is more 85% - 15%.

An excellent player will keep his audience entertained while playing shit gear.
Everyone will go "that guy was awesome", a small few might say that "his tone wasn't great" but they too will have stayed to the end of the show.

A bad player will entertain no-one, no matter how good his gear is. Everyone will leave and say "man, that guy was shit". I doubt anyone will have noticed that his tone was awesome, in fact I'm sure of it.

I had a guy a while back who wanted a choke and clarity mod on a 5150 cause he felt the amp wasn't tight enough. The guy couldn't play to save his ass. Loose alternate picking and metal riffs that should be down stroke chugged.
This is what I mean. If he got a hell of a lot better his tone would 90% of where he wanted to be, and in most cases that's enough. The other 10% would be from mods or a different amp/speaker/pickup or whatever.
At his level he certainly would not have perceived any tonal difference at all with just a mod.

Most gear can be dialed in to produce a tone that is acceptable to most of the general public with the right player. Fact.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 12:52 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by Salsg View Post
The player makes a difference, and the gear makes a difference.

Tone is sum of all the parts of gear, technique, style. For good guitarists, the sum is more than the whole of its parts. For bad guitar players, the sum is less.
In this big ole shit storm aka defination debate, I think that this makes the most sense.
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Personally, I'd never get another person's signature guitar, amp, etc. So, I'd go with the Jackson. I'm planning on getting an RR-1.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 12:54 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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This really made me laugh out loud to a empty room in my house!
well that avatar of yours... same same. even the dog thinks i've lost it...
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just tone testing-

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Unread 09-19-2010, 08:39 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

Tone is in the fingers AND in the equipment. The fact that Angus can get a good sound out of a crappy amp it's another matter. Great guitarists always choose the best gear, just like the best pianists choose the best pianos (Steinway, Bosendorfer, etc.).
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Unread 09-19-2010, 09:40 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

when i was working at the local music shop, this dude came in and started jamming,....imeadiately everyones heads snaped right on to him cuz ole' boy was ****in up some sic ass old school blues and had monster tone. When I walked over to him he was playin a squire bullet through a peavey envoy....that guy had Great Tone....he picked up an american strat, and sounded bout the same.....just sayin'
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I have a bunch of amps and guitars...

My favorite head ever - 2203
Second favorite head - Jubilee

My #1 Guitar - 98 Custom Shop Jackson Soloist-Mike Shannon Built
My #2 Guitar - 1982 Les Paul Std.

I dig blues and metal.


"IF IT'S TOO LOUD, YOUR TOO CLOSE"
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Originally Posted by Fretboard View Post
Personally, I'd never get another person's signature guitar, amp, etc. So, I'd go with the Jackson. I'm planning on getting an RR-1.
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Unread 09-19-2010, 09:43 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by Wycked Lester View Post
when i was working at the local music shop, this dude came in and started jamming,....imeadiately everyones heads snaped right on to him cuz ole' boy was ****in up some sic ass old school blues and had monster tone. When I walked over to him he was playin a squire bullet through a peavey envoy....that guy had Great Tone....he picked up an american strat, and sounded bout the same.....just sayin'
was his name greg martin by chance?- i doubt it cause he's a lp man....but he rocks a strat too...
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LIFE,LIBERTY,& the pursuit of TONE.

2007 Epi LP Custom LTD.
2010 Austin LP GT w/ P90s
Yamaha HSS strat
custom rebuilt Washburn BT-2 Maverick
modded Squier strat s/s/s
Marshall JMP-1 (rack)
a bunch of other carp.
my music,sounds,samples,& snippets-
http://www.reverbnation.com/rlcltd
https://soundcloud.com/rlc-ltd

Stratisfied

https://soundcloud.com/rlc-ltd/stratisfied

just tone testing-

https://soundcloud.com/rlc-ltd/shred-mastered-solo-tone-test-wanking
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Unread 09-19-2010, 10:13 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

.

Last edited by The Grim Peeper; 09-19-2010 at 11:39 PM.
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Unread 09-20-2010, 01:52 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

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Originally Posted by Wycked Lester View Post
In this big ole shit storm aka defination debate, I think that this makes the most sense.
That is my meaning also look what I wrote a few posts back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lespaulnmarshall View Post
I didn't mean tone was ALL in the fingers, I think 60% of the tone is the fingers the other 40% is gear.
So yes the amp DOES make a difference, so does the player.
Sometimes it's like that, if not it's like it's like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wycked Lester View Post
when i was working at the local music shop, this dude came in and started jamming,....imeadiately everyones heads snaped right on to him cuz ole' boy was ****in up some sic ass old school blues and had monster tone. When I walked over to him he was playin a squire bullet through a peavey envoy....that guy had Great Tone....he picked up an american strat, and sounded bout the same.....just sayin'
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Unread 09-20-2010, 05:17 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

When I realise I need slightly more mids and perhaps a little less distortion, will I find the controls in my head, in my fingers or on my amp?
Could James Hetflield or Dimebag Darrel have recorded their most successful albums with a JTM45 or a Bluesbreaker? Probably not.

Would B.B. King play through a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier with the Gain on 10? Probably not.
Would Angus Young find his tone playing an EMG-loaded guitar through an Engl Savage on the Lead Channel with tons of preamp distortion?

A Blues amp won't give you a Metal sound and a lead channel with the gain on 11 will not give you an AC/DC type sound. That is a question of tone and has nothing to do with anybody's fingers.

Take 10 decent guitar players and let the play through a Marshall, they will each sound different in their own way, but you will still hear it's a Marshall. Then let these dudes play through an Engl Powerball - same story but it will sound like an Engl.

To avoid missunderstandings:
yes, the player does matter and a shitty player through a high-end rig will sound like shit just like a good player through a shit rig can still sound decent.

Some here have brought it to the point:
style (technique) and tone are two totally different things. And yes, I do believe we are mostly arguing on semantics here.
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Unread 09-20-2010, 05:46 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Re: Let's face the f*cking truth

I SO agree!!!
I'm brand new to this forum and only a year into playing guitar, but I can tell you that after spending a few thousand pounds on guitars and amps to get the 'tone' I thought I wanted, I came to a shocking conclusion: I CAN'T ACTUALLY PLAY GUITAR VERY WELL!!!
So, I ignored all the tones of all the guitarists I had been listening to and just chose the guitar and amp combo which simply made me feel good and want to just play and play. And that combo is: an R7 and a Class 5!!
PERFECT! I'm a happy man, and now I an just get on with becoming a better player.

Thanks for reading ............ ThePoppster
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