gruggier

Hi I am a newbie to the forums and to playin guitar and got a question about vacum tubes.

So from what I hear Mullards are the best availabe tubes, but fuggin expensive.

Mullard Tubes : MullardTubes.com

I just would not know what to purchace. I got a JVM 410H.

So anybody who can educate me I would very much appreciate it. If there are any Marshall reps on this forum who can suggest what tubes to buy that would be awesome to.

Now I did email the Mullard company but never got a responce. Dont want you guys think I am a slacker. Been three weeks or so no and responce. I am gonna call them if no one here knows.

Thanks again and take care.

Guy.

stryker59

first of all....welcome to the forum!!!
secondly, i have the jvm 410 as well and just retubed w/ jj's. they are great tubes imo!!! talk to bob at eurotubes!!
Eurotubes

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gruggier

Thank you for the Welcome. I did check that web site out before joining.

Let me ask you another question.

I have read taht the tubes the Marshalls have now when bought new are not that good???

I am inexperienced with this but I think my 410h sounds pretty awesome as they are. I just learned that cables are pretty important and overlooked so I purchaced some Mogami's and waiting to get those including the head to cabinet cable.

stryker59

i think the tubes that marshall puts in at the factory come from one of two places and are rebranded marshall. if the label on the tubes is white then they are shuguang chinese tubes. if the label is red then they are jj's.
both of these tube brands are good imo.
i think the tubes that come in new marshalls get a bad rap. first they ride the boat or plane to their destination and then get played by a bunch of people who wanna see what the amp sounds like. tubes in a new or used amp are like guitar strings, change em when you buy a new one. but imo if you were to put the same brand tubes that came in the marshall from the factory when you retube you would be using quality good tubes!!

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MonstersOfTheMidway

I agree with Stryker. There are plenty of horror stories about Marshall amp tubes, in particular, the JVM series. I own the JVM410H 100 watt head and I can say that I have had absolutely no trouble with the stock tubes. I love the sound of the stock tubes, and I will purchase the same ones when it comes time to retube: Shuguang (Chinese) ECC83 (12AX7); SED Winged C EL34 power tubes. Sometimes, though, I think we need to read these stories about bad stock tubes with a grain of salt. What condition were the tubes in when purchased? What is the level experience of the user (newbie, pro, etc?; What is the history of the amp? There are just so many variables that go into play with dealing with amplifiers and their owners that always make me wonder beyond what has been stated in a post.

DragonSarc

holy crap look at those mullard prices geezzzz, from what ive read through out forums that mullard are good but better of on HI End audio amps/stereo, it will work on marshalls too but your just throwing out $$$, JJs and other tubes will work just fine, ive orderd from Tubedepot but with experience I received 1 bad tube sux cuz i have to wait for the other tube, bob on eurotubes JJs on the other hand Ive ordered 2 sets of power and preamp tube and all worked, thier experienced and knows what they are doing, fast reply on emails too and easy on the wallet compared to mullards. just my .02c

amplifier

Dragon, I thought I warned you not to order from thetubestore!!! Now look what happened!

edit.. oh that was someone else.

gruggier

Thanks guys all good info. Those guys at Mullard never wrote me back. What fuggin loosers.

Adwex

gruggier,

Welcome to the forum, neighbor. Good to see a fellow LI'er here.

No harm in trying out different tubes, I chose some Tung Sols for my preamp, and SED Winged =C= for my EL34's.

DragonSarc

wish it was me its all good live and learn

nguideau

Now, I will say my experience with this is pretty limited, but here's my two cents.

In a lot of cases, companies simply buy tubes bulk from factories across the world, and then test, package, and rebrand them. Generally, the quality of the tube first lies within the factory they came from, and secondly, with the company that tested, packaged, and rebranded them.

I believe the main tube manufacturers will come from these places (I'm sure someone can correct me here):
- China
- Russia
- Slovakia (Old Tesla factory?)
- U.S. (GE?)

There are differring opinions on it, but the closest consensus I've heard is that Chinese tubes are usually the lowest quality because their manufacturers have lower QA and QC standards. The other three are kind of a crapshoot. I've heard so many opinions on it. I've heard a lot of people say the Russian manufacturers are a slight step below Slovakian and U.S., though not usually by much. And Slovakian and U.S. is where I've heard the most debate. One guy I know swears that the Slovak tubes are brighter... take that for what you will. Other people I've talked to say U.S. is the way to go (but obviously there's always a little bias for people saying "buy American" and that "American is quality").

The second factor is the testing and matching that the companies that package the tubes and sell them do. Groove is an example. To my knowledge, Groove simply buys unbranded tubes from these factories across the globe. They then have their OWN QA and QC standards that are completely separate from those of the factory. Groove tests them to first make sure they meet quality standards, and then to make sure certain pairs or quartets of tubes will work well together. Some people will tell you this is a scam. I honestly don't know. I've heard many many people say that so long as the tubes are the same type (e.g. EL34 or EL84) and manufacturer, and everything is biased appropriately, it shouldn't matter if the tubes were "matched" to "work well together" by Groove or whatever company. Hopefully a tube expert can chime in, but I tend to believe this simply because I'm a pessimist when it comes to companies coming up with gimmicks to sell me things I don't need.

But, I don't want to discount what Groove, and similar companies, do. They provide a level of testing beyond what the factory does, and that's important. Their standards are higher, so they will reject more tubes than the factory will fresh "off the line". So, for instance, buying Chinese-manufactured tubes from Groove isn't as much of a risk as some might make you think. But you still, according to most, are better of getting Russian, Slovak, or U.S. made tubes.

As for Mullard... I'm not totally sure what's going on there. I thought that the Mullard name was just a name at this point, and that they were owned by another tube company. However, it seems that they are branding some of their tubes as "Made in the U.K."? Maybe they still have one of the old Mullard factories in production in the U.K. even though they are under control of some other company.

coldsteal2

JJ's is the Slovakian factory, and they are the old Tesla factory
they are even called JJ/Tesla

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nguideau

Ahh, good to know!

So in that case, it sounds to me like you can't go wrong with a Slovakian tube. I mean, I'm having Slovak Grooves put in it right now, and the previous set were JJ/Teslas.

coldsteal2

Yea you cant go wrong with Slovakia

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nguideau

Yeah, I should say, by the way, that those JJ Teslas I had, lasted 6 years! What I will say is I moved a bit and really did not get around to playing it much until the last year, but they definitely had at least 2 or 2.5 years worth of typical mileage on them, instead of the general one or so that you get before they start to lose their tone.

gruggier

Do you guys change the tubes your selves? Or do you have professionals do it?

Who in the heck would you go to to do it?

DragonSarc

you can do it your self I did mine and it was simple you dont need an engineering degree, you just need the tools to do it here check the vid at http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-video.htm

RachelMorgan

Last of all, I'm still using the stock tubes. They're working fine. I think they sound great. I'll get around to trying something else out when the one of the tubes goes microphonic or just goes out. Until then, I'll stay put with the stock. Why spend the money? This means I'll be retubing in about 3 years -- power tubes -- maybe if they're shot. I'm using a Hot Plate with the amp.

Oh, and I have a brand new set of JJ ECC83S high gain tubes sitting on my shelf that I tried in the Vintage Modern but I couldn't get the tone so they came out the same day, and the amp went back to the store and the JVM sits in place of it. I've got like 5 of them and one balanced for the phase inverter. I suppose they'll have to wait a few years, unless someone wants to buy them from me. I'm not swapping anything out until it's needed.

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Guitars: ESP LTD Alexi-600 V; Gibson SG Standard; Schecter C-1 Hellraiser (JB/'59 w/ JB coil tap)
Amps: Peavey 6505+; Fender HR Deville.
Board: Crybaby -> TS808 -> amp -> M-108 -> Whammy -> BF-3 -> DD-6 -> Sonic Stomp -> amp -> Hot Plate ->
Speakers: Avatar Contemporary 212s #1: Greenbacks; #2: Vintage 30s

gruggier

I love my JVM so much I just got a used Combo JVM 410c that looks freegin new off Ebay! Actually I got it for my kid.

Morrir

RE: Changing your own tubes:

I am a complete moron when it comes to electricity; I had to go next door to get my neighbour(teaches electrical at tech school)to show me how to read my voltmeter. But I changed the power tubes on my JCM2000 DSL401 for the first time ever last night, and in the end, it was actually pretty easy! just learn how to read the meter properly, set the correct bias, and be careful not to disturb any of the other components on the board. I searched the net, and came up with a website that tells you how to change the tubes in my particular amp from start to finish...really a great tutorial. I used Mesa Boogie EL84's, because they were inexpensive($20 per matched pair, $40 for 4), and I didn't want to chance frying some expensive JJ's or Groove Tubes first time out. But next time, I will try some of the better tubes. I kind of like the Mesa's, BTW...they are a bit brighter & crisper than the stock Marshalls(imho), sort of like an AC30 a bit....

So I say, go ahead and change your own tubes! It will save you a bundle of cash, plus it's a useful skill to have going forward.

Here's the link to that instructional site, to give you an idea of the steps(I imagine they are the same for any amp, but I am sure someone will corect me on that if I am mistaken; and please do!)

index

just click on the "Biasing info" link.

good luck!

Shawn Fate

I run mullards in my Splawn and I love them.Have not tried them in the JVM yet.

mmorse

In the U.S. that would be Western Electric, not GE.

mmorse

Mullard went out of business many years ago. New Sensor, a Russian company, bought the Mullard name and sells tubes under the Mullard name. They don't even come close to comparing to real Mullards. Groove Tubes sells their EL34M which is built to the same specs as the original Mullard El34 Xf2. They look like XF2s, but don't sound like them. To be fair, they are the closest thing to a real XF2 for modern production. I have real Mullards and have tried the GTs.

I've done a lot of tube rolling in my amps. My '83 2204 sounds its best when running old Mullards but I've had some new production amps that didn't seem to care if they had new production tubes or old Mullards. I think amp designers design their circuits to perform best with the tubes that can be readily acquired. For older Marshalls, that was Mullard tubes. For new stuff like the JVM, that would be the new production tubes.

One thing people forget is making tubes is not an exact science and many tubes can be sub par in any production run. That was true years ago and true today. Two tubes from the same run can sound vastly different. I think a lot of borderline bad tubes make their way through the pipeline these days.

So, unless Marshall tests and grades the tubes they use, some stinkers are going to find their way into new amps. Based on my experience trying different tubes in amps, IMO, someone who owns a JVM should not necessarily drop a lot of coin on old Mullards. Now if you want to retube an old JMP or early 800, that's a different story.

steelhorse

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kdickinson

Did you see this Mullard Video? Ahh the good old days.

The Mullard Factory Tour

mullard video : mullardtubes.com

steelhorse

Cool video

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