NOS valves vs new ones

Reginald · 10-17-2009, 06:55 AM

does the Output transformer work better with NOS tubes or current ones?
as an example an amp with GEC KT88s Vs current Sovtek KT88s

T-Bird · 10-17-2009, 07:18 AM

Hi.

About the only parameter of the tube that greatly affects the operation of the OT is the plate to plate load resistance.

IME the difference in that parameter with NOS vs new production tubes isn't significant enough to make any difference in either direction.

Regards
Sam

Wilder Amplification · 10-17-2009, 10:50 AM

Define "work better".

Also, X2 on Sam's post.

kev93_10 · 10-17-2009, 05:11 PM

I use NOS valves throughout my amps and am amazed with the difference.

I installed a set of Mullards into my JMP today as it happens!

K

MartyStrat54 · 10-17-2009, 10:27 PM

As a hard core advocate of NOS tubes, I will say that they sound better and they are more reliable. As far as a current production tube versus an NOS tube, the engineers target the same electrical parameters, so there shouldn't be any difference between the two.

Wilder Amplification · 10-17-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

As a hard core advocate of NOS tubes, I will say that they sound better and they are more reliable. As far as a current production tube versus an NOS tube, the engineers target the same electrical parameters, so there shouldn't be any difference between the two.

There are quite a few companies that offer "clone" tubes. Most of the 6550s I've seen being made to day seem to claim that they sound like the GE ones. Winged C EL34s are supposed to be a copy of the old Mullards IIRC.

Of course with this whole RoHS crap going on I wonder how that will affect the materials used for tube manufacture.

MartyStrat54 · 10-18-2009, 12:26 AM

Yeah, a lot of people do not realize that there is a "force" out there wanting to shut the tube plants down. The same way auto paint booths were hit and heavily regulated.

Are the Winged =C='s what you use in your amps? I think they are one of the better, more reliable tubes out there right now.

Wilder Amplification · 10-18-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Yeah, a lot of people do not realize that there is a "force" out there wanting to shut the tube plants down. The same way auto paint booths were hit and heavily regulated.

Are the Winged =C='s what you use in your amps? I think they are one of the better, more reliable tubes out there right now.

Nah...I use the JJ E34Ls now. I used to use the Winged =C='s back when they could market them under their real name Svetlana, and they're great tubes, but the E34Ls seemed to have a midrange phatness that I really liked over the Winged =C='s. From my experience with them, they seem to hold up in reliability just as well as the Winged =C='s...ran them flat out cranked for 3 years straight every weekend and just had to replace them the normal "every 4-6 months".

MartyStrat54 · 10-18-2009, 12:49 AM

Well, there has been some real slamming of anything JJ on some of the tube forums. I personally have had bad luck with them. I won't use them. However, I think it's great that you are having good success with them. I'm just a little concerned about JJ's quality control and burn in. I've done a lot of research on current production tubes and it is not uncommon for up to 50 per cent of the tubes to fail during the preliminary burn in. The rest are sold, but anyone could fail after it is installed in an amp. The main thing I see that is scary is hot bias drift. You stick a set of tubes in and a week later without warning, a tube goes hot. Without knowing this, the guitarist continues to use his amp until the tube blows and takes other components with it.

Again, that is why I like the reliability of NOS tubes.

Wilder Amplification · 10-18-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Well, there has been some real slamming of anything JJ on some of the tube forums. I personally have had bad luck with them. I won't use them. However, I think it's great that you are having good success with them. I'm just a little concerned about JJ's quality control and burn in. I've done a lot of research on current production tubes and it is not uncommon for up to 50 per cent of the tubes to fail during the preliminary burn in. The rest are sold, but anyone could fail after it is installed in an amp. The main thing I see that is scary is hot bias drift. You stick a set of tubes in and a week later without warning, a tube goes hot. Without knowing this, the guitarist continues to use his amp until the tube blows and takes other components with it.

Again, that is why I like the reliability of NOS tubes.

The hot bias drift sounds like it could be an issue with grid leakage in the tube. It sux that nowadays it seems that quality control has gone completely out the window. To top it off, I'm sure that some of the manufacturing processes are being controlled by the "green police" so there may very well be a process that made those NOS valves reliable that they can no longer do due to EPA bullshit.

psychotech · 10-21-2009, 02:18 AM

I have been playing a 77' JMP 50w for 20 years and I have never had a problem. Use the amp at least 20 hours a week. I have been using it pretty much daily since I bought it in the 80's. It doesn't seem to care what tubes I use. It doesn't seem to care if one or both tubes are bad or failing. Sometime a microphonic pre tube gives me a hassle. I have had a situation where the amp was accidently fed 220vac and was lighting up the wall behind it and nothing. I usually go for about a year or even two between tube changes. I play out once a week. I like the tubes after they have been completely broken and rebiased for drift maybe 3-5 times. After that she just sings like a banshee. I really don'l like to deal with having to retube everytime my tone sags a little. I just rebias until things stabalize and im done. I use it to my advantage and just compensate with the treble and presense controls. The amp is a tank. I can't say enough about it. As far as NOS vs New. I have some NOS Mullard's in my Fender Supersonic and they sound better than the GT's that were in there but it's not like any miracle. I like Tubedepot middle of the road tube at about 35ma. Just drop 'em in and go. Rebias about once a month for about 3 months and get 2 years of bitchen album quality marshall tone. Forget about tubes and just play the amp. CRANK IT!

Jesstaa · 10-21-2009, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Well, there has been some real slamming of anything JJ on some of the tube forums. I personally have had bad luck with them. I won't use them. However, I think it's great that you are having good success with them. I'm just a little concerned about JJ's quality control and burn in. I've done a lot of research on current production tubes and it is not uncommon for up to 50 per cent of the tubes to fail during the preliminary burn in. The rest are sold, but anyone could fail after it is installed in an amp. The main thing I see that is scary is hot bias drift. You stick a set of tubes in and a week later without warning, a tube goes hot. Without knowing this, the guitarist continues to use his amp until the tube blows and takes other components with it.

Again, that is why I like the reliability of NOS tubes.

I had that exact problem with JJs. Stuck some KT77s in, biased them up and in a matter of minutes the bias had gone from 38 - 40, I set it down to 32, and then it jumped right back up to 40. Eventually got it stable, played for 40 minutes, noticed my sound getting really weird, kinda thin and very very hotted up, then all of a sudden this uber hum, when I looked behind my amp, I saw a small glow spreading out from the center of the plates.

Eurotubes wouldn't replace my tubes because they had been used... HOW THE FUCK DO I TELL IF THEY WORK WITHOUT USING THEM -_- Crazy punks

Wilder Amplification · 10-21-2009, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesstaa

I had that exact problem with JJs. Stuck some KT77s in, biased them up and in a matter of minutes the bias had gone from 38 - 40, I set it down to 32, and then it jumped right back up to 40. Eventually got it stable, played for 40 minutes, noticed my sound getting really weird, kinda thin and very very hotted up, then all of a sudden this uber hum, when I looked behind my amp, I saw a small glow spreading out from the center of the plates.

Eurotubes wouldn't replace my tubes because they had been used... HOW THE FUCK DO I TELL IF THEY WORK WITHOUT USING THEM -_- Crazy punks

WTF!? So much for a valve warranty. That's why we warranty ours for 6 months. Sux to have to pay good money for a set of valves and not have them work, only to have the supplier not give any kind of warranty.

Reginald · 10-21-2009, 05:50 AM

What's the model type of old Mullard EL34s?
Mullard IIRC? which EL34 model ones did Hendrix use,exactly?

MartyStrat54 · 10-21-2009, 05:32 PM

The exact tubes are in an old shoe box over at Jimi's aunt's house. Now I can call her and get the Blackburn codes off of them. How does that sound? Do you want me to ask her if the tubes are for sale?

thrawn86 · 10-21-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

The exact tubes are in an old shoe box over at Jimi's aunt's house. Now I can call her and get the Blackburn codes off of them. How does that sound? Do you want me to ask her if the tubes are for sale?

Owww.....that smarts!

MartyStrat54 · 10-21-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrawn86

Owww.....that smarts!

Shucks...that's nothing. I can do a whole lot better than that.

Wilder Amplification · 10-21-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Shucks...that's nothing. I can do a whole lot better than that.

Marty, you need to get your info straight before you post it. Those tubes are in a shoebox in my closet.

*sarcasm*

thrawn86 · 10-21-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

Shucks...that's nothing. I can do a whole lot better than that.

I know you can. That's why I'm on your side.

10-17-2009, 06:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
Reginald Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 80	NOS valves vs new ones does the Output transformer work better with NOS tubes or current ones? as an example an amp with GEC KT88s Vs current Sovtek KT88s

10-17-2009, 07:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
T-Bird Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Finland (Northern Europe) Posts: 151	Re: NOS valves vs new ones Hi. About the only parameter of the tube that greatly affects the operation of the OT is the plate to plate load resistance. IME the difference in that parameter with NOS vs new production tubes isn't significant enough to make any difference in either direction. Regards Sam

10-17-2009, 05:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
kev93_10 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 53	Re: NOS valves vs new ones I use NOS valves throughout my amps and am amazed with the difference. I installed a set of Mullards into my JMP today as it happens! K

10-17-2009, 10:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,581	Re: NOS valves vs new ones As a hard core advocate of NOS tubes, I will say that they sound better and they are more reliable. As far as a current production tube versus an NOS tube, the engineers target the same electrical parameters, so there shouldn't be any difference between the two. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-18-2009, 12:26 AM	#7 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,581	Re: NOS valves vs new ones Yeah, a lot of people do not realize that there is a "force" out there wanting to shut the tube plants down. The same way auto paint booths were hit and heavily regulated. Are the Winged =C='s what you use in your amps? I think they are one of the better, more reliable tubes out there right now. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-18-2009, 12:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,581	Re: NOS valves vs new ones Well, there has been some real slamming of anything JJ on some of the tube forums. I personally have had bad luck with them. I won't use them. However, I think it's great that you are having good success with them. I'm just a little concerned about JJ's quality control and burn in. I've done a lot of research on current production tubes and it is not uncommon for up to 50 per cent of the tubes to fail during the preliminary burn in. The rest are sold, but anyone could fail after it is installed in an amp. The main thing I see that is scary is hot bias drift. You stick a set of tubes in and a week later without warning, a tube goes hot. Without knowing this, the guitarist continues to use his amp until the tube blows and takes other components with it. Again, that is why I like the reliability of NOS tubes. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-21-2009, 02:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
psychotech Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3	Re: NOS valves vs new ones I have been playing a 77' JMP 50w for 20 years and I have never had a problem. Use the amp at least 20 hours a week. I have been using it pretty much daily since I bought it in the 80's. It doesn't seem to care what tubes I use. It doesn't seem to care if one or both tubes are bad or failing. Sometime a microphonic pre tube gives me a hassle. I have had a situation where the amp was accidently fed 220vac and was lighting up the wall behind it and nothing. I usually go for about a year or even two between tube changes. I play out once a week. I like the tubes after they have been completely broken and rebiased for drift maybe 3-5 times. After that she just sings like a banshee. I really don'l like to deal with having to retube everytime my tone sags a little. I just rebias until things stabalize and im done. I use it to my advantage and just compensate with the treble and presense controls. The amp is a tank. I can't say enough about it. As far as NOS vs New. I have some NOS Mullard's in my Fender Supersonic and they sound better than the GT's that were in there but it's not like any miracle. I like Tubedepot middle of the road tube at about 35ma. Just drop 'em in and go. Rebias about once a month for about 3 months and get 2 years of bitchen album quality marshall tone. Forget about tubes and just play the amp. CRANK IT!

10-21-2009, 05:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
Reginald Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 80	Re: NOS valves vs new ones What's the model type of old Mullard EL34s? Mullard IIRC? which EL34 model ones did Hendrix use,exactly?

10-21-2009, 05:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,581	Re: NOS valves vs new ones The exact tubes are in an old shoe box over at Jimi's aunt's house. Now I can call her and get the Blackburn codes off of them. How does that sound? Do you want me to ask her if the tubes are for sale? __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

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