Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV.

marantz1300 · 10-06-2009, 07:44 AM

I have a 76 JMP Super Lead ,great amp with fantastic tone. I might trade it for a Marshall with master volume. Which older Marshalls have MVs ? Do they suck tone ?

anthonyr · 10-06-2009, 08:20 AM

The JMP 2203(100 watt) and 2204(50 watt) were introduced back in 1975. Some of these models included a master volume just like the JCM 800's bearing the same model numbers. In my opinion they sound amazing but it seems to vary from amp to amp. I don't think this would be an ebay purchase for me because i want to try it out before i buy.

janarn · 10-06-2009, 08:34 AM

Both 2203 and 2204 were MV models from the start as JMP amps in '75.
The 2204 didn't have the cascaded preamp from the start,
so the early models doesn't sound good.
2203 had the cascaded preamp from the start.
Both models sound great (2204 from 77/78?),

Frankie · 10-07-2009, 12:52 PM

All master volumes suck tone as a byproduct of lowering the output tube and transformer saturation was well as not allowing for speaker compression and breakup. 2203/4 master volumes especially suck tone since they sit right after V1 in the amp. Just install a PPIMV in that '76 in a reversible spot, like one of the 4 speaker outputs, and call it a day. It's a $8 kit over at metroamp.

custom53 · 10-07-2009, 02:09 PM

Sorry for being unknowledgable, but what is "PPIMV"....

janarn · 10-07-2009, 02:31 PM

PPIMV = Past Phase Inverter Master Volume.

Phase Inverter is V3, the last tube in the preamp,
or more correct the first tube in the output section.
Most MV operate before the PI, this one is after the PI.

The idea is that much of the distortion from the output section
comes from the PI, a 12AX7, and not from the output tubes.

I don't understand how a PPIMV should get anything else
out of the output tubes and the OT than other MV.

Both 2203 and 2204 are great sounding amps, but not at low volume.

Frankie · 10-07-2009, 03:30 PM

It doesn't get more out of the power tubes, but a saturated tone driver and PI sound a lot better than just a saturated V1 like in a 2203/4. A PPIMV in a 2203/4 circuit sounds awesome, and that's currently how I run my Marshall clone more or less.

janarn · 10-07-2009, 04:01 PM

Both 2203 and 2204 have an extra triode as a boost in front
of the triode that is the first triode in NMV models like the 1987 or 1959.

Frankie · 10-08-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janarn

Both 2203 and 2204 have an extra triode as a boost in front
of the triode that is the first triode in NMV models like the 1987 or 1959.

Yup, that's why JCM 800's are single channel amps. They basically took the second channel of the 1959/1987 and used it as a second gain stage.

pinto79 · 10-30-2009, 07:39 PM

Is it possible to convert my 2203's MV into a PPIMV?

PaoloJM · 11-02-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

It doesn't get more out of the power tubes, but a saturated tone driver and PI sound a lot better than just a saturated V1 like in a 2203/4. A PPIMV in a 2203/4 circuit sounds awesome, and that's currently how I run my Marshall clone more or less.

Just clarify for everyone; the 2203/2204 master volume comes after V2.
V2 in the 2203 circuit produces a lot of distortion, particularily warmer second order harmonics, which is a critical part of the 2203 tone. That is in addition to the distortion produced by V1.
Amps like the Soldano SLO also used this type of circuit very effectively.

10-06-2009, 07:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
marantz1300 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 58	Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. I have a 76 JMP Super Lead ,great amp with fantastic tone. I might trade it for a Marshall with master volume. Which older Marshalls have MVs ? Do they suck tone ?

10-06-2009, 08:20 AM	#2 (permalink)
anthonyr Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Clearwater Florida Posts: 148	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. The JMP 2203(100 watt) and 2204(50 watt) were introduced back in 1975. Some of these models included a master volume just like the JCM 800's bearing the same model numbers. In my opinion they sound amazing but it seems to vary from amp to amp. I don't think this would be an ebay purchase for me because i want to try it out before i buy. __________________ 1982 JCM 800 2203 w/ 1960ax 4x12 1990 Les Paul Studio 2002 Faded Flying V 2003 Duesenberg Starplayer Special http://www.myspace.com/springfieldcubs

10-06-2009, 08:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
janarn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 498	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. Both 2203 and 2204 were MV models from the start as JMP amps in '75. The 2204 didn't have the cascaded preamp from the start, so the early models doesn't sound good. 2203 had the cascaded preamp from the start. Both models sound great (2204 from 77/78?),

10-07-2009, 12:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
Frankie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 365	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. All master volumes suck tone as a byproduct of lowering the output tube and transformer saturation was well as not allowing for speaker compression and breakup. 2203/4 master volumes especially suck tone since they sit right after V1 in the amp. Just install a PPIMV in that '76 in a reversible spot, like one of the 4 speaker outputs, and call it a day. It's a $8 kit over at metroamp. __________________ w w w . c o w b o y m a f i a . n e t Myspace.com \| YouTube \| Facebook

10-07-2009, 02:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
custom53 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 126	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. Sorry for being unknowledgable, but what is "PPIMV".... __________________ 2004 Gibson Les Paul Flametop 1995 Hamer Duo Tone Sunburst 1991 Ernie Ball EVH Trans Black 1981 Hamer Special Trans Green Quilt Sustain Block Bridge with Checkerboard Headstock 1975 Ovation Breadwinner Black Marhsall JMP 2203 Half Stack Marshall JTM 45 Reissue Half Stack 2ea 370/301 Acoustic Bass Amps Peavey Classic 100 Half Stack Tweed Soldano HR50+ Half Stack Black Peavey Butcher 120 Watt Half Stack

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10-07-2009, 02:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
janarn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 498	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. PPIMV = Past Phase Inverter Master Volume. Phase Inverter is V3, the last tube in the preamp, or more correct the first tube in the output section. Most MV operate before the PI, this one is after the PI. The idea is that much of the distortion from the output section comes from the PI, a 12AX7, and not from the output tubes. I don't understand how a PPIMV should get anything else out of the output tubes and the OT than other MV. Both 2203 and 2204 are great sounding amps, but not at low volume.

10-07-2009, 03:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
Frankie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 365	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. It doesn't get more out of the power tubes, but a saturated tone driver and PI sound a lot better than just a saturated V1 like in a 2203/4. A PPIMV in a 2203/4 circuit sounds awesome, and that's currently how I run my Marshall clone more or less. __________________ w w w . c o w b o y m a f i a . n e t Myspace.com \| YouTube \| Facebook

10-07-2009, 04:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
janarn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 498	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. Both 2203 and 2204 have an extra triode as a boost in front of the triode that is the first triode in NMV models like the 1987 or 1959.

10-30-2009, 07:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
pinto79 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Delta, B.C., Canada Posts: 196	Re: Which were the first Marshall's to have a MV. Is it possible to convert my 2203's MV into a PPIMV? __________________ My Marshall Gear: 1992 Anniversary Series 6100 1992 6960A Cabinet loaded with G12T-75s 2005 1987XL MKII Lead 2008 JMP 1959RR Old, beaten 1960A loaded with G12M-25 Greenbacks Ed the Compressor Regenerator

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