Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom

David411 · 10-03-2009, 03:14 PM

Bought this amp about 7 years ago in Vancouver BC and it's since been collecting dust. Can't find any information about it anywhere. 1 transformer looks replaced, others look original. 4 speaker outputs and a serial number that gives me nothing. Any help would be appreciated. I took pictures of as many things as I could.

rockinr0ll · 10-03-2009, 04:04 PM

Most of the the exterior looks like a replica or replaced. It could possibly be fake.

American Viking · 10-03-2009, 04:09 PM

You know, I've never seen a Marshall quite like this. I'm a little confused, the font isn't right on the front and rear panels, I don't ever remember Marshall's having AC outs and the serial number doesn't seem right either. The knobs are obviously wrong but that's a change anyone could make.
Someone could have printed their own front and rear panels, unless this is a rare model that has eluded my vast, but still limited, knowledge of Marshall amps.

I'm going to go with my gut feeling that someone has replaced the panels and done a lot of work to the inside to mod it, that is, unless it's a straight up clone in a Marshall headbox, which is very possible since the serial number does not match anything close to what Marshall has done in the past. Open her up and take some pictures of the wiring in the chassis. That should tell us much more. I'm kind of interested now myself.

David411 · 10-03-2009, 08:57 PM

I've added some pics of the circuitry. The Left section, main board area, doesn't appear to have any recent soldering. It appears original, unlike to the right near the fuses which naturally does, as some of the blue transistors were replaced. The are lettered and numbered tabs with corrosponding letters and numbers written on the board itself (visible in one of the pictures). These tabs are extremely brittle and delicate which would make me think the amp is at least old (they were just like this when I first took this thing apart 7 years ago) and this mod was done quite a whle ago, especially as the transformers appear old aswell. If this is a modded amp, what does it look like the purpose of the mod was? Can I use anything on this board to determines its authenticity?

rockinr0ll · 10-04-2009, 12:22 PM

How about the transformer? Giving us a product number would really help out a lot.

I have an old 1987 that is still in a good cabinet but the PTP has got tons of new caps ect... The transformer I think was also replaced at one time or at least rewired. The chances are that at this point it is basically just a clone.

David411 · 10-04-2009, 05:25 PM

I've addded some pictures of the transformers. The only one with any info is the on that looks replaced. The older looking transformers are totally blank.

Jesstaa · 10-04-2009, 10:15 PM

That looks fake to me.

How much did you pay, and does it actually sound good?

American Viking · 10-05-2009, 02:41 AM

still don't know if it's an authentic Marshall or a clone. The headbox is not original, the tolex pattern is different. The panels are not Marshall panels. The switches and knobs aren't right either, neither is having the AC out. None of the transformers look right either, even if that one was replaced the others don't look like they match Drake or Dagnalls. I'm going to go head and say this is an early clone of a Marshall, intended to be sold as a fake since it says "Jim Marshall Products" on the back.

I couldn't find a proper reference picture but the turret board doesn't look normal either, but I can't say for sure since I couldn't find another PTP gut shot to compare.

T-Bird · 10-05-2009, 02:53 AM

Hi.

I'm no expert by any means, but quite a few things point to a refinished Marshall.

I doubt that many techs would go to the lenghts of painting the "anti-tampering" dots on the solder joints for example and then make the rest of the amp look like a mess.

As for why the amp has been refinished is anyones guess.
Perhaps it sustained some kind of a damage at some point in time, perhaps someone painted it to resemble a modern art, or perhaps it was just hot and needed a "face-lift".

The tags and the little too short wires (hence the mess) seems to me like the turret board was off for some reason.

Someone with a similar head can tell whether the chassis punch-pattern is the same or not. AFAIK the pre-fab chassis manufacturers started their manufacturing in late 90's early 00's. Punching an aux outlet hole is rather easy, many places carry the tooling required.

How it sounds though is the main thing IMHO.

A mess like that and the mods and replaced parts would devalue the head anyway from the collector price point, be that a clone or a "real" Marshall (which it for the most part is IMLE/IMHO).

Regards
Sam

T-Bird · 10-05-2009, 03:54 AM

Hi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

I couldn't find a proper reference picture but the turret board doesn't look normal either, but I can't say for sure since I couldn't find another PTP gut shot to compare.

It looks really similar to my JMP 2003 turret board even with the different circuit, exept for one detail.

The tech who has worked on it, has soldered the wires directly on to the turrets. On the ones I've worked on and/or owned, most of the heavier wiring is routed neatly from under the board, through the holes next to the turrets and then onto the turrets.

Not a big deal, but makes the connection look much neater. An added benefit would be to be able to remove only the component, not the wire when doing repair work, but that can be acchieved in either way.

The choke looks identical to mine, as does the OT exept that mine has the mounting legs on the covers, not separate ones like in the OP's.

And BTW, Turret board construction doesn't equal point to point. I've never seen a PTP Marshall, which obviously doesn't mean some may exist. In that case, I'd like to see a pic.

Regards
Sam

American Viking · 10-05-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bird

And BTW, Turret board construction doesn't equal point to point. I've never seen a PTP Marshall, which obviously doesn't mean some may exist. In that case, I'd like to see a pic.

?????????????????????

Every Marshall up until 1973 was point-to-point on a turret board...

You are right about the choke and tranny, I just saw another one that resembled the amp above.

T-Bird · 10-05-2009, 01:55 PM

Hi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

?????????????????????

Every Marshall up until 1973 was point-to-point on a turret board...

You are right about the choke and tranny, I just saw another one that resembled the amp above.

Could be a regional thing but over here PTP refers to the boadless design with or without short lug strips. A design where the components are mainly connected to the tube sockets, transformer lugs, Filter cap legs etc. (think Silvertones, Champ etc.) giving 3D interference planes.

Like this:

www.lh-electric.4t.com/projects/tin3w_assy.gif

If I'd build that amp, I'd lose one of the strips.

This guy explains about it much better than I ever could.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folder...t/pt-to-pt.htm

Regards
Sam

American Viking · 10-05-2009, 04:08 PM

That's a pretty good article. I see your point I've just never heard of anyone say typical construction on a turret is not PTP. I do see the difference now that I've read that link.

I do like how the guy dispels certain myths too, that's pretty cool.

Gtrman58 · 10-05-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockinr0ll

Most of the the exterior looks like a replica or replaced. It could possibly be fake.

That was my thoughts. Never seen that kind of covering, construction does not quiet look right.

David411 · 10-05-2009, 10:24 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the info so far. As far as the tone goes, I'm no expert on these kind of amps. I just plugged it in and got to play with it for about an hour out of my carvin 2x12. Probably the first time this things been powered up in 5 years. Channel 1 is ridiculously loud, I can barely get the volume to 1. Very bright, even with the presence down, and sensitive. I can dig the clean tone, it shimmers to my liking, but this amp is pretty useless by itself given the style of music I play. It has absolutely no gain out of channel 2 which is VERY bassy. I cranked it up to 2 (9 o'clock) and my ears were about to bleed and it was barely breaking up, still way to clean to play anything close to even a dirty blues. Shouldn't these things get SOME grit on the 2nd channel? Again, I know nothing about vintage gear.

Ken · 10-06-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David411

Hey guys, thanks for the info so far. As far as the tone goes, I'm no expert on these kind of amps. I just plugged it in and got to play with it for about an hour out of my carvin 2x12. Probably the first time this things been powered up in 5 years. Channel 1 is ridiculously loud, I can barely get the volume to 1. Very bright, even with the presence down, and sensitive. I can dig the clean tone, it shimmers to my liking, but this amp is pretty useless by itself given the style of music I play. It has absolutely no gain out of channel 2 which is VERY bassy. I cranked it up to 2 (9 o'clock) and my ears were about to bleed and it was barely breaking up, still way to clean to play anything close to even a dirty blues. Shouldn't these things get SOME grit on the 2nd channel? Again, I know nothing about vintage gear.

It's an amp designed to be played loud. Put a pedal up front like a Tube screamer or such and I bet you'll be in love! It'll save your ears...

Ken

10-03-2009, 04:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom Most of the the exterior looks like a replica or replaced. It could possibly be fake.

10-03-2009, 04:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom You know, I've never seen a Marshall quite like this. I'm a little confused, the font isn't right on the front and rear panels, I don't ever remember Marshall's having AC outs and the serial number doesn't seem right either. The knobs are obviously wrong but that's a change anyone could make. Someone could have printed their own front and rear panels, unless this is a rare model that has eluded my vast, but still limited, knowledge of Marshall amps. I'm going to go with my gut feeling that someone has replaced the panels and done a lot of work to the inside to mod it, that is, unless it's a straight up clone in a Marshall headbox, which is very possible since the serial number does not match anything close to what Marshall has done in the past. Open her up and take some pictures of the wiring in the chassis. That should tell us much more. I'm kind of interested now myself. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-04-2009, 12:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom How about the transformer? Giving us a product number would really help out a lot. I have an old 1987 that is still in a good cabinet but the PTP has got tons of new caps ect... The transformer I think was also replaced at one time or at least rewired. The chances are that at this point it is basically just a clone.

10-04-2009, 10:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jesstaa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Gippsland, Vic, Australia. Posts: 797	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom That looks fake to me. How much did you pay, and does it actually sound good? __________________ GEAR LIST Marshall JCM900 4100 (6L6) (1995) Marshall Valvestate 1965A cab (????) Cort VX-2V (2008) TUBES/SPEAKERS Power: Groove Tube 6L6GCB Phase Inverter: Sovtek 7025 Pre: V1 - N.O.S Mullard ECC83. V2 National 12AX7A Speakers: Celestion G10L-35 Marshall forever My tube amp & Real Music appreciation forum

10-05-2009, 02:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom still don't know if it's an authentic Marshall or a clone. The headbox is not original, the tolex pattern is different. The panels are not Marshall panels. The switches and knobs aren't right either, neither is having the AC out. None of the transformers look right either, even if that one was replaced the others don't look like they match Drake or Dagnalls. I'm going to go head and say this is an early clone of a Marshall, intended to be sold as a fake since it says "Jim Marshall Products" on the back. I couldn't find a proper reference picture but the turret board doesn't look normal either, but I can't say for sure since I couldn't find another PTP gut shot to compare. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-05-2009, 02:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
T-Bird Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Finland (Northern Europe) Posts: 151	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom Hi. I'm no expert by any means, but quite a few things point to a refinished Marshall. I doubt that many techs would go to the lenghts of painting the "anti-tampering" dots on the solder joints for example and then make the rest of the amp look like a mess. As for why the amp has been refinished is anyones guess. Perhaps it sustained some kind of a damage at some point in time, perhaps someone painted it to resemble a modern art, or perhaps it was just hot and needed a "face-lift". The tags and the little too short wires (hence the mess) seems to me like the turret board was off for some reason. Someone with a similar head can tell whether the chassis punch-pattern is the same or not. AFAIK the pre-fab chassis manufacturers started their manufacturing in late 90's early 00's. Punching an aux outlet hole is rather easy, many places carry the tooling required. How it sounds though is the main thing IMHO. A mess like that and the mods and replaced parts would devalue the head anyway from the collector price point, be that a clone or a "real" Marshall (which it for the most part is IMLE/IMHO). Regards Sam

10-05-2009, 04:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom That's a pretty good article. I see your point I've just never heard of anyone say typical construction on a turret is not PTP. I do see the difference now that I've read that link. I do like how the guy dispels certain myths too, that's pretty cool. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-05-2009, 10:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
David411 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Need Help Dating/Authenticating 100W JMP Super Lead Custom Hey guys, thanks for the info so far. As far as the tone goes, I'm no expert on these kind of amps. I just plugged it in and got to play with it for about an hour out of my carvin 2x12. Probably the first time this things been powered up in 5 years. Channel 1 is ridiculously loud, I can barely get the volume to 1. Very bright, even with the presence down, and sensitive. I can dig the clean tone, it shimmers to my liking, but this amp is pretty useless by itself given the style of music I play. It has absolutely no gain out of channel 2 which is VERY bassy. I cranked it up to 2 (9 o'clock) and my ears were about to bleed and it was barely breaking up, still way to clean to play anything close to even a dirty blues. Shouldn't these things get SOME grit on the 2nd channel? Again, I know nothing about vintage gear.

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