Nut Files

Wiseblood · 05-10-2012, 01:02 PM

Do you guys use em or use an alternative method like perhaps a razor blade?

I have a guitar that needs a nut adjustment and don't want to have to go out and buy more hand tools if I don't need to.

Stringjunkie · 05-10-2012, 01:25 PM

Run an old guitar string through it a bit.

blackone · 05-10-2012, 01:28 PM

Get some welding tip cleaners, works like a charm for about three bucks

hbach · 05-10-2012, 01:33 PM

I just got the Stewmac ones and cut my first nut and bridge saddles and they do work very well. I can't imagine doing a cleaner job with anything else. They come with two gauges per file. I got three files but in a pinch I'd say two files (four gauges) will work fine.

Stringjunkie · 05-10-2012, 01:45 PM

What sizes would be the ones to get?

DirtySteve · 05-10-2012, 01:56 PM

I really want to get some of those Stewmac files. I've been using sand paper wrapped over different thicknesses of feeler gauges. I've made a few passable nuts that way, but files would work sooooo much easier.

I like the welding tip cleaners idea....think I'll try to find a welding supply close by.

Wiseblood · 05-10-2012, 02:11 PM

I'm not getting the welding tip cleaner? Is that to keep it lubed?

A string I would think would take for ever, I did think of that actually. I had seen someone use a razor blade but can't in-vision how you'd get it smooth and even.

hbach · 05-10-2012, 02:14 PM

I got:
0.012 - 0.020 - This one will basically do the four high strings if you don't want to spend much
0.026 - 0.032 - Usefull for D and G but if you want to save you can do it without
0.036 - 0.042 - This one will help have a nice clean radius for A and E
Hers's the link:
STEWMAC.COM : Double-edge Nut Files

keef1367 · 05-10-2012, 02:24 PM

You FILE your nuts?????
That's gotta hurt either from abrasion or when ya shut the drawer PMSL!

But seriously it's not something I have ever had to do, and am very interested in the suggestions posted in this thread

Sorry I couldn't resist

DirtySteve · 05-10-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiseblood

I'm not getting the welding tip cleaner? Is that to keep it lubed?

A string I would think would take for ever, I did think of that actually. I had seen someone use a razor blade but can't in-vision how you'd get it smooth and even.

They're actually little round files. I only know because I used to weld in my younger days. They're used to clean the tips on a cutting torch.

Wiseblood · 05-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtySteve

They're actually little round files. I only know because I used to weld in my younger days. They're used to clean the tips on a cutting torch.

Oh okay, wow that looks pretty interesting, I like the idea of having them all on one small contained unit.

hbach · 05-10-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keef1367

You FILE your nuts?????
That's gotta hurt either from abrasion or when ya shut the drawer PMSL!

But seriously it's not something I have ever had to do, and am very interested in the suggestions posted in this thread

Sorry I couldn't resist

Try filing your nuts once. It'll stop you buzzing and have you screaming in no time

brp · 05-10-2012, 03:16 PM

What a coincidence, I was considering starting a thread for this so I'm glad you did!

I cut my first nut ever just this week.
I used needle files, a dremel cutting wheel and old strings (mostly the strings).
The strings do not take long at all really, on a bone nut.

Unfortunately I ****ed up the high E and went too low. SO easy to cut too low when using an improvised tool, especially those unwound string slots.

I wish I had known of the welder tip cleaner idea.

The unwound strings are really the tricky ones, especially E and B, WHERE ROOM FOR ERROR is very small and things like an old string and needle files don't really work, so you really only need proper nut files for those strings IMO.

It's important to cut a slot with a rounded or flat bottom, not a V. A V shape can dampen the string not making a clean termination point thereby dulling the sustain of the open string's "ring-out" and also can lead to the problem of a string getting "stuck" not sliding resistance-free through the slot. I found these things out via my experimenting this week.
In the end I had to trash my nut due to not having the right tool for ONE slot but it was worth the cost of the nut for the learning experience. The rest of the slot's turned out great.

DirtySteve · 05-10-2012, 03:54 PM

I just got this in an e-mail from Stewmac today and thought it was fitting for this thread.

Trade Secrets! Newsletter at Stewart-MacDonald

DirtySteve · 05-10-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brp

...
Unfortunately I ****ed up the high E and went too low. SO easy to cut too low when using an improvised tool, especially those unwound string slots.
...

A trick I learned from a guitar store owner/luthier one time is to take a little bit nut filings or some baking soda and put some in the slot, then put a drop of super glue in there, once it dries completely then sand off the excess and re-cut the slot. The filings are cool because your putting the same material back in the slot, but on the other hand I like the baking soda because it dries almost instantly. I will worn you the first few times you do it can get messy and I've glued a few nuts to my finger, but it works.

The only problem I found with that is the super glue dries harder than the nut material so it's tricky the cut the slot back in the exact same place because it wants the slip to one side. not good, so...

...I started building it up from the bottom to raise the whole nut and I'd re-cut all the slots again. It was great practice if your not in too much of a hurry. I would make like a form around the whole nut with a piece of tape leaving a lip sticking out over the bottom about 1/32" deep and filling it with baking soda and then super glue. It dries almost instantly and then I could sand all the excess off, square up the bottom and start over.

After I got to where I could get it right more than one time in a row, then I'd make another final one using a new nut. That was a little wordy I know and I don't know if it all made sense but that's how I learned to do it. I bet I did that 25 or more times before I got to where I could get it right the first time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brp

...
The unwound strings are really the tricky ones, especially E and B, WHERE ROOM FOR ERROR is very small and things like an old string and needle files don't really work, so you really only need proper nut files for those strings IMO.
...

That's another reason I liked using sand paper folded over feeler gauges, I could use the thinnest one for the high e and add thickness for the next string and so on.

edit: almost forgot...I start my slots with a triangle needle file and get them "close" to depth and in the right spots using feeler gauges across the fretboard against the nut set a little bit higher than I want to go so I can't go too deep. Then I use the sandpaper/feeler gauges to finish up the slots....but I found a welding supply right down the road so I'm definitely trying those next time.

carnada · 05-10-2012, 05:01 PM

**** I miss working at the guitar shop repairing instruments.

blackone · 05-10-2012, 05:03 PM

You can also cut grooves in the bottom of a set of feeler gauges to act like saws. Just make sure to get a round edged set. Blue points off the snap-on truck are good at around 11 bucks, then you'll also have a good set of feeler gauges to finish the setup with.

DirtySteve · 05-10-2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

**** I miss working at the guitar shop repairing instruments.

Man, you should've never quit that job....you had my dream job.

carnada · 05-10-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtySteve

Man, you should've never quit that job....you had my dream job.

Well the thing is it was never my job :P I was just an apprentice for 12 months. I learned so much shit though. My master was trying to get me into becoming a real luthier and he wanted me to become a full time luthier for life. He had all the contacts and everything, but I really wanted to do something else. But this summer I might be building a classical guitar!

DirtySteve · 05-10-2012, 05:47 PM

I didn't know it was only a 12 month thing, I thought you quit. Well if he liked you that much and had the contacts for you, why can't you still pursue it? Maybe I don't understand the deal.

brp · 05-10-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtySteve

A trick I learned from a guitar store owner/luthier one time is to take a little bit nut filings or some baking soda and put some in the slot, then put a drop of super glue in there, once it dries completely then sand off the excess and re-cut the slot. The filings are cool because your putting the same material back in the slot, but on the other hand I like the baking soda because it dries almost instantly. I will worn you the first few times you do it can get messy and I've glued a few nuts to my finger, but it works.

The only problem I found with that is the super glue dries harder than the nut material so it's tricky the cut the slot back in the exact same place because it wants the slip to one side. not good, so...

...I started building it up from the bottom to raise the whole nut and I'd re-cut all the slots again. It was great practice if your not in too much of a hurry. I would make like a form around the whole nut with a piece of tape leaving a lip sticking out over the bottom about 1/32" deep and filling it with baking soda and then super glue. It dries almost instantly and then I could sand all the excess off, square up the bottom and start over.

After I got to where I could get it right more than one time in a row, then I'd make another final one using a new nut. That was a little wordy I know and I don't know if it all made sense but that's how I learned to do it. I bet I did that 25 or more times before I got to where I could get it right the first time.

That's another reason I liked using sand paper folded over feeler gauges, I could use the thinnest one for the high e and add thickness for the next string and so on.

edit: almost forgot...I start my slots with a triangle needle file and get them "close" to depth and in the right spots using feeler gauges across the fretboard against the nut set a little bit higher than I want to go so I can't go too deep. Then I use the sandpaper/feeler gauges to finish up the slots....but I found a welding supply right down the road so I'm definitely trying those next time.

Ya that made sense and I appreciate the tips!

It does seem pretty Mcgyver-ey even for me and I can't imagine filling in a .10 slot with super glue, it's soooo small of a gap.
But then again, I have this nut that is PERFECT except for the .10 slot so I might have to give it a go rather than let the whole nut be a waste of money and the time I put into getting all the other slots right. Thanks.
I have a "discount" welding supply shop right next door to me, I'm going to hit them up tomorrow and check on those cleaners.
Hopefully with a little creative refilling I can save that nut.

DirtySteve · 05-10-2012, 06:03 PM

Cool, glad you find it useful. I also meant to say that you made some really good points in your post about the shape of the slots. That's one thing that worries me about the welding tip files, I'm afraid they might be too flimsy...that's also the main reason I've never tried to use a string.

carnada · 05-10-2012, 07:46 PM

I read somewhere that a square shaped slot is better than making it round, because when it's round the string has more friction with the nut and it's harder to keep in tune. But if you make slots square, then the string has only 3 contact points (left, down, right) so that gives you less friction I think.

hbach · 05-10-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

I read somewhere that a square shaped slot is better than making it round, because when it's round the string has more friction with the nut and it's harder to keep in tune. But if you make slots square, then the string has only 3 contact points (left, down, right) so that gives you less friction I think.

I'm not a luthier but my bat (engineering) scenes tell me that the idea of a good nut is low friction but primarily stability, so the string is nested in the same position stably. That is why ideally you have a round slot with a slightly larger radius with a V for entry for a stable fit with just one contact point.
A square slot would pose the following problems: Perfect fit does not exist, let alone in a hand made slot so either the slot is to narrow and pinches the stirng (I almost a typed skin - freudian slide

) - no good. Or it is to wide so the string will have "wiggle" room to nestle and not just one stable position.
Just my $0,02.

carnada · 05-10-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbach

I'm not a luthier but my bat (engineering) scenes tell me that the idea of a good nut is low friction but primarily stability, so the string is nested in the same position stably. That is why ideally you have a round slot with a slightly larger radius with a V for entry for a stable fit with just one contact point.
A square slot would pose the following problems: Perfect fit does not exist, let alone in a hand made slot so either the slot is to narrow and pinches the stirng (I almost a typed skin - freudian slide

) - no good. Or it is to wide so the string will have "wiggle" room to nestle and not just one stable position.
Just my $0,02.

Im confused now

could u talk in less engineering language? xD

brp · 05-11-2012, 12:39 AM

What I know is my "V" slot for the high E was muting the string somewhat.
Then I tried to flatten it but I went too deep. I shimmed it but just wasn't feeling good about it since I still had the fully workable stock nut, so I switch it back in and the muting was gone, the string rang out noticeably more like it should than with the V slot.
All my other self cut slots were rounded or flat and sounded fine.

For the record the stock nut has all flat/square slots but it's a plastic and I was trying to upgrade to a bone. I was ordering a bunch of parts for a couple partscasters so I thought what the hell I'll get a nut and try my hand at it. It was only 5 bucks.
I'll try to save it, if only for the experience/challenge.

hbach · 05-11-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnada

Im confused now

could u talk in less engineering language? xD

I hope a pic can help:

You should be teaching us master luthier

Bubba po · 05-11-2012, 11:13 AM

DirtySteve · 05-11-2012, 11:44 AM

Excellent! I looked for a chart like that (don't think it was that one), but I couldn't find it. Another thing is that one contact point needs to happen at the very edge of the slot. Then it should angle back towards the tuning peg.

I stopped on my way to get lunch a little while ago and picked up some welding tip cleaners for $5.30. Just as I suspected the thinner one are pretty flimsy, but I'm going to give 'em a try. Now I just need to order a few nut blanks.

hbach · 05-11-2012, 01:51 PM

It is not a chart from anywhere I just illustrated my understanding, but if it is helpful, all the better.

05-10-2012, 01:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Wiseblood Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: The Pit Posts: 1,505	Nut Files Do you guys use em or use an alternative method like perhaps a razor blade? I have a guitar that needs a nut adjustment and don't want to have to go out and buy more hand tools if I don't need to.

05-10-2012, 01:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stringjunkie Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: S W Florida Posts: 3,497	Re: Nut Files Run an old guitar string through it a bit. __________________ Orange Dark Terror JCM1H DSL1H Sourmash 1x12/reaper Sourmash 1x12/green beret Fender American standard strat-stock Ibanez RG- MHD pups Gibson LP 50s tribute studio-stock There will be NO hot chick pics in the Marshall Forum! I like sleep

05-10-2012, 01:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
blackone Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,408	Re: Nut Files Get some welding tip cleaners, works like a charm for about three bucks HOT TUBES 70, DirtySteve and brp like this. __________________ Excuze the speling, im on an fone

05-10-2012, 01:33 PM	#4 (permalink)
hbach Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,309	Re: Nut Files I just got the Stewmac ones and cut my first nut and bridge saddles and they do work very well. I can't imagine doing a cleaner job with anything else. They come with two gauges per file. I got three files but in a pinch I'd say two files (four gauges) will work fine.

05-10-2012, 01:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
Stringjunkie Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: S W Florida Posts: 3,497	Re: Nut Files What sizes would be the ones to get? __________________ Orange Dark Terror JCM1H DSL1H Sourmash 1x12/reaper Sourmash 1x12/green beret Fender American standard strat-stock Ibanez RG- MHD pups Gibson LP 50s tribute studio-stock There will be NO hot chick pics in the Marshall Forum! I like sleep

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05-10-2012, 01:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
DirtySteve Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 6,805	Re: Nut Files I really want to get some of those Stewmac files. I've been using sand paper wrapped over different thicknesses of feeler gauges. I've made a few passable nuts that way, but files would work sooooo much easier. I like the welding tip cleaners idea....think I'll try to find a welding supply close by.

05-10-2012, 02:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Wiseblood Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: The Pit Posts: 1,505	Re: Nut Files I'm not getting the welding tip cleaner? Is that to keep it lubed? A string I would think would take for ever, I did think of that actually. I had seen someone use a razor blade but can't in-vision how you'd get it smooth and even.

05-10-2012, 02:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
hbach Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,309	Re: Nut Files I got: 0.012 - 0.020 - This one will basically do the four high strings if you don't want to spend much 0.026 - 0.032 - Usefull for D and G but if you want to save you can do it without 0.036 - 0.042 - This one will help have a nice clean radius for A and E Hers's the link: STEWMAC.COM : Double-edge Nut Files carnada and brp like this.

05-10-2012, 02:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
keef1367 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lincolnshire UK Posts: 879	Re: Nut Files You FILE your nuts????? That's gotta hurt either from abrasion or when ya shut the drawer PMSL! But seriously it's not something I have ever had to do, and am very interested in the suggestions posted in this thread Sorry I couldn't resist Wiseblood and bvoris like this. __________________ A bunch of amps and guitars Some of my tunes http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...bandID=1235856 [IMG]http://www.marshallforum.com/members/keef1367-albums-general-picture6473-givea****meter2ik.gif[/IMG]

05-10-2012, 03:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
brp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 4,129	Re: Nut Files What a coincidence, I was considering starting a thread for this so I'm glad you did! I cut my first nut ever just this week. I used needle files, a dremel cutting wheel and old strings (mostly the strings). The strings do not take long at all really, on a bone nut. Unfortunately I ****ed up the high E and went too low. SO easy to cut too low when using an improvised tool, especially those unwound string slots. I wish I had known of the welder tip cleaner idea. The unwound strings are really the tricky ones, especially E and B, WHERE ROOM FOR ERROR is very small and things like an old string and needle files don't really work, so you really only need proper nut files for those strings IMO. It's important to cut a slot with a rounded or flat bottom, not a V. A V shape can dampen the string not making a clean termination point thereby dulling the sustain of the open string's "ring-out" and also can lead to the problem of a string getting "stuck" not sliding resistance-free through the slot. I found these things out via my experimenting this week. In the end I had to trash my nut due to not having the right tool for ONE slot but it was worth the cost of the nut for the learning experience. The rest of the slot's turned out great. Wiseblood, DirtySteve, JayCM800 and 1 others like this. __________________ Recommended: On Floor Audio mods by HOT TUBES 70, Martimus Maximus tubes from MartyStrat54, NOS tubes from RiverRatt -- My Studio -- "If we can't laugh at the dead, we have no business killing people"

05-10-2012, 03:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
DirtySteve Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 6,805	Re: Nut Files I just got this in an e-mail from Stewmac today and thought it was fitting for this thread. Trade Secrets! Newsletter at Stewart-MacDonald Wiseblood, brp and keef1367 like this.

05-10-2012, 05:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 4,422	Re: Nut Files **** I miss working at the guitar shop repairing instruments. DirtySteve and JayCM800 like this. __________________ Guitars: Black American Fender Stratocaster (Dave Murray REPLICA) Red American Fender Strat Deluxe Edition My own "Balance" handmade by me acoustic signature guitar My own "Balance" handmade by me classical signature guitar Michael Collins Classical Guitar Ibanez RG321 (scalloped neck) The AMP: No more amp

05-10-2012, 05:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
blackone Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,408	Re: Nut Files You can also cut grooves in the bottom of a set of feeler gauges to act like saws. Just make sure to get a round edged set. Blue points off the snap-on truck are good at around 11 bucks, then you'll also have a good set of feeler gauges to finish the setup with. DirtySteve and keef1367 like this. __________________ Excuze the speling, im on an fone

05-10-2012, 05:47 PM	#20 (permalink)
DirtySteve Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 6,805	Re: Nut Files I didn't know it was only a 12 month thing, I thought you quit. Well if he liked you that much and had the contacts for you, why can't you still pursue it? Maybe I don't understand the deal. thrawn86 likes this.

05-10-2012, 06:03 PM	#22 (permalink)
DirtySteve Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 6,805	Re: Nut Files Cool, glad you find it useful. I also meant to say that you made some really good points in your post about the shape of the slots. That's one thing that worries me about the welding tip files, I'm afraid they might be too flimsy...that's also the main reason I've never tried to use a string.

05-10-2012, 07:46 PM	#23 (permalink)
carnada Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 4,422	Re: Nut Files I read somewhere that a square shaped slot is better than making it round, because when it's round the string has more friction with the nut and it's harder to keep in tune. But if you make slots square, then the string has only 3 contact points (left, down, right) so that gives you less friction I think. __________________ Guitars: Black American Fender Stratocaster (Dave Murray REPLICA) Red American Fender Strat Deluxe Edition My own "Balance" handmade by me acoustic signature guitar My own "Balance" handmade by me classical signature guitar Michael Collins Classical Guitar Ibanez RG321 (scalloped neck) The AMP: No more amp

05-11-2012, 12:39 AM	#26 (permalink)
brp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 4,129	Re: Nut Files What I know is my "V" slot for the high E was muting the string somewhat. Then I tried to flatten it but I went too deep. I shimmed it but just wasn't feeling good about it since I still had the fully workable stock nut, so I switch it back in and the muting was gone, the string rang out noticeably more like it should than with the V slot. All my other self cut slots were rounded or flat and sounded fine. For the record the stock nut has all flat/square slots but it's a plastic and I was trying to upgrade to a bone. I was ordering a bunch of parts for a couple partscasters so I thought what the hell I'll get a nut and try my hand at it. It was only 5 bucks. I'll try to save it, if only for the experience/challenge. __________________ Recommended: On Floor Audio mods by HOT TUBES 70, Martimus Maximus tubes from MartyStrat54, NOS tubes from RiverRatt -- My Studio -- "If we can't laugh at the dead, we have no business killing people"

05-11-2012, 11:13 AM	#28 (permalink)
Bubba po Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Not influenced by Jimi Hendrix. Posts: 350	Re: Nut Files DirtySteve and keef1367 like this.

05-11-2012, 11:44 AM	#29 (permalink)
DirtySteve Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 6,805	Re: Nut Files Excellent! I looked for a chart like that (don't think it was that one), but I couldn't find it. Another thing is that one contact point needs to happen at the very edge of the slot. Then it should angle back towards the tuning peg. I stopped on my way to get lunch a little while ago and picked up some welding tip cleaners for $5.30. Just as I suspected the thinner one are pretty flimsy, but I'm going to give 'em a try. Now I just need to order a few nut blanks.

05-11-2012, 01:51 PM	#30 (permalink)
hbach Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,309	Re: Nut Files It is not a chart from anywhere I just illustrated my understanding, but if it is helpful, all the better.

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