Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?!

Kevrock · 10-10-2009, 11:33 PM

I am brand new to this forum and I have a puzzle for someone to figure out. I have a cabinet loaded with one 1971 and one 1970 pre-rola greenback 25 watt 75hz speakers and they both have metal dust covers. I have never seen this before. Any idea as to what these could be out of and or if they have seen this before? (The other two that are in the cab were unfortunately reconed with Waldoms at some point.)

george76 · 10-11-2009, 08:50 AM

could be some kind of mod or repair. especially if the others have been reconed.

out of interest what year cab is it? and have you got any pics for my viewing pleasure.

jcmjmp · 10-11-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevrock

I am brand new to this forum and I have a puzzle for someone to figure out. I have a cabinet loaded with one 1971 and one 1970 pre-rola greenback 25 watt 75hz speakers and they both have metal dust covers. I have never seen this before. Any idea as to what these could be out of and or if they have seen this before? (The other two that are in the cab were unfortunately reconed with Waldoms at some point.)

The cones look original but I've never seen the chrome dust covers. Jim Sevall at scumback could help you in ID'ing those speakers.

How do they sound?

Kevrock · 10-11-2009, 12:34 PM

The cab is an absolute nightmare. The tolex was taken off and the entire thing, including the grill cloth, was painted! The previous owner had swapped out the particle board back of the cab with an piece of wood, and did some bracing inside of it.

I will get some photos up later today....you'll get a kick out of this trainwreck!

The other crazy thing is that the 2 reconed speakers on the bottom have basically glued themselves to the wood. One of them I managed to break loose but in the process a little piece of the cork surround tore off, which tore the paper a little...looks like I'll be fixing that one.

I just purchased this cab with a 77 JMP Superlead MKII 100 watt head (6550's rule). As far as what these metal dust covered greens sounded like...I'll need to pay specific attention to them when I fire this up next time, as I did not realize that the speakers were different in this, so I did not pay that much attention to the individual speakers when I was playing through it.

BUT...I can tell you that I was really blown away at how good the head and cab sounded together overall. I was not expecting that cab to sound as good as it did!

Thanks for the lead on identifying these.

More photos soon!

george76 · 10-11-2009, 01:23 PM

on a basketweave cab the back panel would not be particle board, it would be birch ply like the rest of the cab. that is one of the things that make them sound better than a modern one.

the grillcloth looks good to me on the reverse side, you may be able to switch it around. but it can be hard to get the baffle board out on an angled cab.

looks a decent enough cab to me from the inside. would like to see those pics.

Kevrock · 10-11-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george76

on a basketweave cab the back panel would not be particle board, it would be birch ply like the rest of the cab. that is one of the things that make them sound better than a modern one.

the grillcloth looks good to me on the reverse side, you may be able to switch it around. but it can be hard to get the baffle board out on an angled cab.

looks a decent enough cab to me from the inside. would like to see those pics.

Here are some more photos of the cab. I would love to see that basketweave on the outside, but I don't know if it's worth the pain.

Maybe you guys can tell from the photos whether the inside bracing, handles, back board etc are original or not. Another strange discovery that I forgot to mention.....the 2 speakers that have the Waldom coded cones, one was reconed with a metal dust cap and the other one didn't!

Kevrock · 10-11-2009, 10:46 PM

A few more photos of the 2 Waldom recones. Btw: when were Waldom kits mostly used?

There is also a shot of the back of the cab

And my head!

So, for short term goals...
Re-wire the cab with something other than lamp cord.
Fix the small tear that I did in the surround on the non-metal dust covered waldom.

Possibly flip the grill cloth around (How hard is this to do???) It would be cool to recover this and put new piping on it, but I have not a clue as to the best way to do this.

The head is solid...I am going to clean up the layers of grime and dirt inside and out, test the tubes, check the caps and turn it up! I'll post some more photos if any of ya are interested in looking at it once I finish.

george76 · 10-12-2009, 06:54 AM

what do you mean by the 'bracing' inside it? all the wood looks original to me. the wooden piece in the centre is larger on vintage cabs. the metal handles are original too but have been painted black.

do you know if the logo is original? one way to check is to look for small holes in the basketweave where the 6" logo may have been. If its a 1970 cab it would have the 9" logo, if its earlier it would have a 6" logo. Another way to check is to pull on the logo, if it doesnt move its got pins on the logo holding it down, if it moves its been glued on to the grillcloth.

id say all that cab needs is a retolex with the gold piping, either flip the grillcloth or get a new one, put the right logo on it, and replace the speakers with a matching quad. also you could replace those metal handles with clean ones (about £50 on ebay), or try and clean the paint off yourself. if you cant afford a matching quad of pre-rolas, get something like vintage 30's, or heritage G12m or g12h. sell off the existing speakers to get some money back.

george76 · 10-12-2009, 06:56 AM

what condition are the casters in?

Ken · 10-12-2009, 09:46 AM

I have a 4x12 cabinet from the 1970's that has the metal cone centers too. It's not a Marshall...but I remember when I bought it the salesman said they were better than paper as they dissapate heat better. I never took the back off to see what they are, but now I'm curious!

Ken

jcmjmp · 10-12-2009, 09:50 AM

You might be able to get the grill cloth back. Reversing it should work fine and its not that hard to do. I'd try to vacuum it first and get it as clean as possible.

Was it painted black? If so, that could affect the tone of the cab. I would try cleaning it but worst case, you can put new cloth on there.

Kevrock · 10-12-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george76

what do you mean by the 'bracing' inside it? all the wood looks original to me. the wooden piece in the centre is larger on vintage cabs. the metal handles are original too but have been painted black.

do you know if the logo is original? one way to check is to look for small holes in the basketweave where the 6" logo may have been. If its a 1970 cab it would have the 9" logo, if its earlier it would have a 6" logo. Another way to check is to pull on the logo, if it doesnt move its got pins on the logo holding it down, if it moves its been glued on to the grillcloth.

As far as the "bracing" comment...I have never seen the inside of one of these cabs before, so I was not sure if this was the way that they were constructed.

The logo is a 9" logo and its got the pins holding it down.

Kevrock · 10-12-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmjmp

You might be able to get the grill cloth back. Reversing it should work fine and its not that hard to do. I'd try to vacuum it first and get it as clean as possible.

Was it painted black? If so, that could affect the tone of the cab. I would try cleaning it but worst case, you can put new cloth on there.

I am going to clean it up the best I can and try reversing the grill cloth. I was wondering about the paint on the grill cloth and what kind of effect that it would have on the cabs tone..There probably isn't a way to get the black paint off without ruining the basketweave. My guess is that anything that would take off the black paint would bleed the black into the unpainted side of the basketweave. Either way, if it sounds good, I'm just gonna roll with it!

george76 · 10-12-2009, 05:13 PM

id say that was worth restoring. If you are in the UK I would certainly enquire how much marshall would charge you to get it done. retolex and new grillcloth.

if you get it restored it could be pretty valuable and would certainly look a lot better.

and if it were mine I would completely swap the speakers for another set.

American Viking · 10-13-2009, 08:05 AM

Soooo, if you have to get new tolex, new grill cloth, new screws, new hardware, new logo, you basically just "restored" a couple pieces of plywood... lol

As long as the speakers sound good that's all that matters. Of course it'd be nice to pretty it up, but the speakers are where the money is at.

Is there a signature inside the cabinet? All Marshall cabs were signed on the inside by whoever put it together to insure a little bit of pride in the work. Something about the wood looks funny to me, but then again, I've got more experience poking my head in new cabs, not older ones.

American Viking · 10-13-2009, 08:07 AM

get some sound clips up of that bad boy!

george76 · 10-13-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

Is there a signature inside the cabinet? All Marshall cabs were signed on the inside by whoever put it together to insure a little bit of pride in the work.

more likely to spot the sloppy workers. I think I read Jim Marshall started that off because he was getting blamed for someone elses oversights.

American Viking · 10-13-2009, 05:24 PM

exactly. If you're name is on it and they can come back to you you're less likely to f*ck it up! I know the mans name who didn't screw in the bottoms of my top two speakers in my 1960A cabinet!

Rockbert · 10-15-2009, 05:56 PM

Hey, that looks just like the cab that was for sale in the classifieds here.

Too bad about the recones. The mojo is all in the cone, not the basket...
But for crying out loud, don't get a new grill cloth! Just turn it around. Or actually... yeah, you probably should get a new one. I'll be happy to dispose of that old one if you send it to me...

10-11-2009, 08:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
george76 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 75	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! could be some kind of mod or repair. especially if the others have been reconed. out of interest what year cab is it? and have you got any pics for my viewing pleasure.

10-11-2009, 12:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kevrock Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 6	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! The cab is an absolute nightmare. The tolex was taken off and the entire thing, including the grill cloth, was painted! The previous owner had swapped out the particle board back of the cab with an piece of wood, and did some bracing inside of it. I will get some photos up later today....you'll get a kick out of this trainwreck! The other crazy thing is that the 2 reconed speakers on the bottom have basically glued themselves to the wood. One of them I managed to break loose but in the process a little piece of the cork surround tore off, which tore the paper a little...looks like I'll be fixing that one. I just purchased this cab with a 77 JMP Superlead MKII 100 watt head (6550's rule). As far as what these metal dust covered greens sounded like...I'll need to pay specific attention to them when I fire this up next time, as I did not realize that the speakers were different in this, so I did not pay that much attention to the individual speakers when I was playing through it. BUT...I can tell you that I was really blown away at how good the head and cab sounded together overall. I was not expecting that cab to sound as good as it did! Thanks for the lead on identifying these. More photos soon!

10-11-2009, 01:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
george76 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 75	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! on a basketweave cab the back panel would not be particle board, it would be birch ply like the rest of the cab. that is one of the things that make them sound better than a modern one. the grillcloth looks good to me on the reverse side, you may be able to switch it around. but it can be hard to get the baffle board out on an angled cab. looks a decent enough cab to me from the inside. would like to see those pics.

10-12-2009, 06:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
george76 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 75	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! what do you mean by the 'bracing' inside it? all the wood looks original to me. the wooden piece in the centre is larger on vintage cabs. the metal handles are original too but have been painted black. do you know if the logo is original? one way to check is to look for small holes in the basketweave where the 6" logo may have been. If its a 1970 cab it would have the 9" logo, if its earlier it would have a 6" logo. Another way to check is to pull on the logo, if it doesnt move its got pins on the logo holding it down, if it moves its been glued on to the grillcloth. id say all that cab needs is a retolex with the gold piping, either flip the grillcloth or get a new one, put the right logo on it, and replace the speakers with a matching quad. also you could replace those metal handles with clean ones (about £50 on ebay), or try and clean the paint off yourself. if you cant afford a matching quad of pre-rolas, get something like vintage 30's, or heritage G12m or g12h. sell off the existing speakers to get some money back.

10-12-2009, 06:56 AM	#9 (permalink)
george76 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 75	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! what condition are the casters in?

10-12-2009, 09:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ken Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington Heights, IL Posts: 607	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! I have a 4x12 cabinet from the 1970's that has the metal cone centers too. It's not a Marshall...but I remember when I bought it the salesman said they were better than paper as they dissapate heat better. I never took the back off to see what they are, but now I'm curious! Ken

10-12-2009, 09:50 AM	#11 (permalink)
jcmjmp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,345	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! You might be able to get the grill cloth back. Reversing it should work fine and its not that hard to do. I'd try to vacuum it first and get it as clean as possible. Was it painted black? If so, that could affect the tone of the cab. I would try cleaning it but worst case, you can put new cloth on there.

10-12-2009, 05:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
george76 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 75	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! id say that was worth restoring. If you are in the UK I would certainly enquire how much marshall would charge you to get it done. retolex and new grillcloth. if you get it restored it could be pretty valuable and would certainly look a lot better. and if it were mine I would completely swap the speakers for another set.

10-13-2009, 08:05 AM	#15 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! Soooo, if you have to get new tolex, new grill cloth, new screws, new hardware, new logo, you basically just "restored" a couple pieces of plywood... lol As long as the speakers sound good that's all that matters. Of course it'd be nice to pretty it up, but the speakers are where the money is at. Is there a signature inside the cabinet? All Marshall cabs were signed on the inside by whoever put it together to insure a little bit of pride in the work. Something about the wood looks funny to me, but then again, I've got more experience poking my head in new cabs, not older ones. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-13-2009, 08:07 AM	#16 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! get some sound clips up of that bad boy! __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-13-2009, 05:24 PM	#18 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! exactly. If you're name is on it and they can come back to you you're less likely to f*ck it up! I know the mans name who didn't screw in the bottoms of my top two speakers in my 1960A cabinet! __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-15-2009, 05:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rockbert Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: California Posts: 39	Re: Pre-Rola Celestions with metal dust covers ?! Hey, that looks just like the cab that was for sale in the classifieds here. Too bad about the recones. The mojo is all in the cone, not the basket... But for crying out loud, don't get a new grill cloth! Just turn it around. Or actually... yeah, you probably should get a new one. I'll be happy to dispose of that old one if you send it to me...

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