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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:41 AM   #1261 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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They have alnico, ceramic, hybrid alnico boosted with ceramic and NEO
how to recognize a full alnico magnet to/than an hybrid alnico+ceramic+Neo one?

BTW these ones seem/look to sound gorgeous!
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Unread 03-13-2013, 07:45 AM   #1262 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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Actually looking at the Man O War specifications, it may have been the one to do the Tonespotter in.
Nah, They really didn't sound anything alike.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 11:52 AM   #1263 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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Nah, They really didn't sound anything alike.
There has to be some reason for pulling the Tonespotter (a popular speaker ???). One of their other speakers has to be similar.

I do not know. I will ask Eminence.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 12:23 PM   #1264 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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There has to be some reason for pulling the Tonespotter (a popular speaker ???). One of their other speakers has to be similar.

I do not know. I will ask Eminence.
Yeah, no one bought it. It was only available in 8 ohm which made it a difficult choice for a lot of applications
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Unread 03-13-2013, 01:02 PM   #1265 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

You may be right.

Anthony's comments from Eminence were:
"The Tonespotter and a few other models were discontinued due to lack of demand."
and
"each had its own unique qualities. The most similar to Tonespotter is Private Jack."
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Unread 03-13-2013, 02:27 PM   #1266 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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Yeah, no one bought it. It was only available in 8 ohm which made it a difficult choice for a lot of applications
Well the Black Powder was only available in 8 ohms, so I made a modified 1960 cabinet which was detailed on this thread with pictures and I loaded it with two Tonespotters on top and two Black Powders on the bottom. Out of the $4000 worth of Eminence speakers I bought (from Parts Express), the Tonespotter and Black Powder kicked major ass. Let's face it, an 8 ohm half stack and 100 watt head is more than enough for any live situation. Once the venue gets really large, then you run the cab through the PA.

Also, in a 212 cab, you could wire them in series for a 16 ohm load.

MICKEY-Glad you got a hold of Tony. I did multiple pairings with the Private Jacks and played them by themselves and I wasn't much of a fan of them. If Tony says a PJ is similar to the Tonespotter, it would have to be in the mids (above 500Hz) and the highs. The TS had better bottom. Remember the Tonespotter was the G12-65 clone. It would seem to be a popular speaker.

One of the standard Eminence pairings is the Governor and the Texas Heat. I tried this and it really didn't do much for me. To me the Texas Heats are very similar to the Private Jacks. The Jacks need to be paired with a speaker that has good bottom end. The Governor's just don't do it.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 02:36 PM   #1267 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Yes, that makes sense. The Tonespotter would seem to have better bottom end and I do not think the Man O War or the Private Jack will deliver the same. Maybe that is what Audiowonderland was getting across.

I definitely like my bottom end. But I like it all 55-5500 and beyond.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 04:49 PM   #1268 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Well the MOW's have a lot more bottom than the Governor's, that's for sure. They have a thick, chunky tone and palm mutes will tear your head off.

Speaker frequency? Yeah I run the JBL D123's in my TSL602. They are rated 45Hz to 12KHz. Back in the late 50's, JBL had a special mount and you installed them in the wall between studs. For their time, they were an excellent one point source hifi speaker. Mine were made in 1961 and are in mint condition. The originals were rear mount only. They were gray in color. Then in the 60's, JBL modified the frame for front or rear mount and they were black. However, some people claim that the frame on the original was stronger and I have to believe that since I have owned both. Harvey Gerst, former JBL designer felt the D123 was the finest guitar speaker ever made.

The early JBL literature has the freq range being 30Hz to 15KHz, but I don't know about that. In a four cubic foot vented box, you can get a solid 40Hz out of it. Today, the D123 is still popular with most low watt tube amp geeks, but most use a nice tweeter to increase the high end.



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Unread 03-13-2013, 04:57 PM   #1269 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Here are a few pictures of that modded 1960 cab with the Tonespotters and Black Powders.



Here's the back panel. I installed two aperiodic vents. These make the speakers think they are in a bigger cabinet. I also installed insulation on the back panel and one side of the cabinet to tighten up the bottom end.

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Unread 03-13-2013, 05:07 PM   #1270 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

cool! an UFO is no match for those!
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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:01 PM   #1271 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

D123 speakers are awesome. It is one great 12 inch speaker.
here is detailing

http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...d123/page1.jpg





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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #1272 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Permanent alnico magnets. mmhmmh what does "permanent" stay for? were there "removable" alnico magnet too? BTW what difference up the metal composition is there among nowdays alnico magnets to old ones?
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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:38 PM   #1273 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

It means the magnetism will stay constant, it won't get weaker over time.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:43 PM   #1274 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Or at least for 150 years +/-. Well, that is what I was told.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:44 PM   #1275 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

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It means the magnetism will stay constant, it won't get weaker over time.
ops now i get it, thxs a bunch
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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:47 PM   #1276 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Mickey-I was going to post that same damn spec sheet. If you notice, they have the original wattage at 20 watts. They later amended that to 50 watts, but I think 40 is safer. I don't crank my 602 that hard and if I sold it, I would pull the JBL's as I can get $250 for the pair.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:47 PM   #1277 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Regi
You do much angling in the Montone or Ronco?
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Unread 03-13-2013, 06:57 PM   #1278 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

i knew i preferred eat much more montone meat before starting to become vegan. what does "angling" mean? translate didnt find it ..its impossible haunt a montone (a ram) by a fishing rod. and what a "ronco" is? maybe you meant "bronco" (bronchus). ahh you meant "ronco" the fish.. ok sorry, you're right..i had been forgotten that name. a "lapsus" of mine sorry mate. well,actually im not a good fisherman..i prefer mountain style/life
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Unread 03-13-2013, 07:35 PM   #1279 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Angling like fishing.
Yes, I hear you. I have not done any fishing since I was young.

I like lamb and do not think I have ever had actual ram especially caught on a fishing rod.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 09:29 PM   #1280 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

That's why I moved to this part of Oklahoma. It's called Green Country and it has many large lakes, rivers and streams. They just had the Bass Master's up at Grand Lake. I love to fish and hunt and this is the area to do it in.
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Unread 03-13-2013, 10:08 PM   #1281 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

wOw Oklahoma! a far myth-land.. i had seen it only into some old far-west movie as this
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Unread 03-13-2013, 11:15 PM   #1282 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Yeah I am originally from Blackwell, Oklahoma and it was started from that Land Rush in your video.

Blackwell is about 12 miles south of the Kansas border where all the wagons and horses were waiting on the starting line.
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Unread 03-14-2013, 06:55 AM   #1283 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

great bro. i invy you to live in a so gorgeous land!
BTW about speakers: nowdays many factories are producing alnico ones. My question is: does this nowdays alnico be the same identical stuff like the 40's-50's-60's ones..or the percentage of metal inside (and the composition of the alloy) is a bit different that the original vintage alnico? (for example the alnico of a nowdays celestion blue alnico vs 50's-60's ones). is the same identical alnico composition or old one is much more different (molecular strunctures,etc) and better? thanks
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Unread 03-14-2013, 10:37 AM   #1284 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

AlNiCo is a recipe and it has its variations or grades same as other metals . Of course they use today's technology to aid in manufacture but I would think it is the same as yesteryear.
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Unread 03-14-2013, 10:49 AM   #1285 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

ok
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Unread 03-14-2013, 03:20 PM   #1286 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Yes, if you are making alnico 5, you make it to the same formula as in the 50's and 60's.

Alnico is very expensive to manufacture in today's economy. One thing about alnico is it is very hard and will last long after you are dead.

I think the new NEO speakers are very interesting. They are very powerful for their size and reduces the weight of a 412 cabinet. I think in the next few years we will see a better selection of NEO guitar speakers.

Neodymium Series | Eminence Speaker
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Unread 03-14-2013, 04:09 PM   #1287 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

It is my guess that Neo has stronger properties than AlNiCo resulting in a need for stiffer suspension and cone. That is propbably why Neo speakers generally have a more sterile and direct sound.
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Unread 03-14-2013, 05:19 PM   #1288 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Yeah I heard that NEO magnets were designed for automotive use in electric car seats. The motor is much smaller than say a 1965 Cadillac.

Magnet selection definitely makes a difference in flavor.
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Unread 03-14-2013, 05:24 PM   #1289 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

Well I'm pissed. After talking about my JBL D123's, I started thinking about putting in higher wattage speakers. I had a Parts Express 2013 catalog so I called as they still had the Black Powder and Tonespotter listed. Well both were discontinued, so I can't put that great pairing in the TSL602. It would have been perfect. Wired in series for 16 ohm and 150 watt power handling. Why? Why did they quit making them?

I'm now thinking about an 8 ohm Swamp Thang and an 8 ohm Tonker. This would give better than 102dB with one watt and 300 watts power rating. I've not paired a Tonker with the Swamp Thang. I'm also considering a Man 'O War.
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Unread 03-14-2013, 06:06 PM   #1290 (permalink)
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Re: Everything and Anything About Speakers

I noticed that those two speakers, Black Powder and Tonespotter, had the best combination of range, sensitivity and most of all resonance.

And they dropped both of them! I call bullshit on their claim to no demand. This is a marketing ploy.

I think they will be designing and moving neo's to fill this. Unless you want the Delta 12's.
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