Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV?

butterguitar · 09-26-2009, 10:05 PM

Ok im a newbie here and it is time for me to get a new cab! I want to go Marshall! However I am not sure what kind of cab I want. The 1960A or the 1960AV. I understand both cabinets are slanted, and have different speakers in them. The 1960A is loaded with Celestion G12T-75 speakers and the 1960AV is loaded with Vintage 30's. From what I understand is the G12-75 speakers have scooped mids, more bass, and tight highs. While the vintage 30's have very good midrange, good highs, but I hear the bass repsonse is not the greatest.

So here is my question, should I go for the Vintage 30's or the G12-75's? I want a speaker that cuts through the mix well. I use a fair amount of mids in my sound (around 5) and I cut my treble down to about 5, with my bass always around 8. I heard about Avatar speakers how you can mix speakers, but im worried about overall quailty :-/

The Celestions I have now are the Celestion 75's loaded in a Crate cabinet, which they are ok, but the tone isnt the best for me. My sound now sounds scooped, and I want to get away from that and be heard more lol.

Any help I would appricate. I look forward to posting in the fourm

By the way, my current head is a Bugera 1990, but im hoping to be going for a Marshall JVM soon!

rockinr0ll · 09-26-2009, 10:25 PM

Buy an old empty Marshall 800/900 cab and load them with MIE V30's and 75's in an X series pattern.

JohnH · 09-26-2009, 11:03 PM

have you seen these threads, with tests?

Speaker test V30 v G12T75 v G12H30 v G12K100

and

Vintage Modern through a bunch of cabinets

John

American Viking · 09-28-2009, 07:24 PM

I've got a bunch of 1960cabs all with the 75 watters, I've always wanted to have V30's in there. Vintage 30's sound great. I really like the sound of my 75er's too but I've definitely wanted to do the "X" pattern trick with G12T75's/V30's.
Warehouse speakers makes speakers modeled after Celestions for half the price, just throwing that out there cause I know the Marshall AV cabs are expensive.

thrawn86 · 09-28-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

I've got a bunch of 1960cabs all with the 75 watters, I've always wanted to have V30's in there. Vintage 30's sound great. I really like the sound of my 75er's too but I've definitely wanted to do the "X" pattern trick with G12T75's/V30's.
Warehouse speakers makes speakers modeled after Celestions for half the price, just throwing that out there cause I know the Marshall AV cabs are expensive.

Will that X pattern match up ohm-wise? That sounds cool! Would it be 16 or 8 ohm?

American Viking · 09-28-2009, 10:19 PM

You can only do it if all speakers are the same ohms. Mixing 8ohm and 16ohm speakers in a 4x12 would give you some odd impedances. Different wattages are ok, but gotta stay right within the ohms.

marshallmellowed · 10-09-2009, 12:40 AM

Either go with the AV, or plan on switching out 2 of the 75's with V30's or something similar. I originally bought the 1960A's, but ended up changing the speakers out. The 75's just don't have any mid range presence by themselves, from my experience. You do want to make sure what you mix with the 75's have the same impedence of the 75's (16 ohms). Also, the V30 is a more efficient speaker than the G12T75, and will be noticably louder, dominating the 75. Therefore, a 2x2 mix of the two will have more of a V30 character, but less harsh with a touch more bass response and compression from the 75's (I've done this combination).

TubeStack · 10-12-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

You can only do it if all speakers are the same ohms. Mixing 8ohm and 16ohm speakers in a 4x12 would give you some odd impedances. Different wattages are ok, but gotta stay right within the ohms.

What are the ohms of the 75s in a stock 1960A cab? 16?

I'm looking at trying the 'X' pattern thing, with a couple of used Eminence Governors (which are supposedly similar to V30s), that are both 16 ohms.

I'm just wondering if I should bother opening up my cab to check, or if someone can tell me right away what the ohms are on the stock speakers (I need to make sure the used Eminence ones match, of course).

Thanks!

thrawn86 · 10-14-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TubeStack

What are the ohms of the 75s in a stock 1960A cab? 16?

I'm looking at trying the 'X' pattern thing, with a couple of used Eminence Governors (which are supposedly similar to V30s), that are both 16 ohms.

I'm just wondering if I should bother opening up my cab to check, or if someone can tell me right away what the ohms are on the stock speakers (I need to make sure the used Eminence ones match, of course).

Thanks!

The 75's in a 1960 are indeed 16 ohm.

MartyStrat54 · 10-14-2009, 09:55 PM

95 per cent of the time a Marshall 4 x 12 cab designed for a tube amp is 16 ohm. All the speakers are 16 ohm. They are wired in series-parallel to obtain the 16 ohm rating.

When mixing speakers, you want the efficiency of the speaker to be withing 1.5 dB of each other. Say one speaker is 102dB at one watt and the other is 101dB at one watt. This is acceptable. Going over 2dB's will result in one speaker being louder than the other, thereby drowning out the tones of the other speaker.

The next area of concern is wattage. Don't mix a 25 watt speaker with a 75 watt model. You can be off, but not by that much. I say keep it within 10 watts of each speaker.

Webslinger · 10-15-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butterguitar

From what I understand is the G12-75 speakers have scooped mids, more bass, and tight highs. While the vintage 30's have very good midrange, good highs, but I hear the bass repsonse is not the greatest.

The Celestions I have now are the Celestion 75's loaded in a Crate cabinet, which they are ok, but the tone isnt the best for me. My sound now sounds scooped, and I want to get away from that and be heard more lol.

Thats pretty much correct.
The V30s are old-school, midrangey and great for classic rock. The G12-75s are good for newer material, metal, alternative. Or you could say the voicing of the V30s are British but the G12-75 are more American sounding. As was mentioned, many players are mixing them to get the best of both worlds (as long as the ohms are the same). I replaced one of the G12T-75s in a 2x12 combo with one Eminence Governor (very similar to a V30) and I like the result. It took the harsh edge off the overall tone, and increased the lower-midrage, but not muddy at all. The Governor is a little more efficient but it doest overpower the G12T, just a little louder to the left if you even notice. So an X-pattern in a 4x12 would probably sound the same, but with more projection. I'd try it.

TubeStack · 10-15-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrawn86

The 75's in a 1960 are indeed 16 ohm.

Thanks, dude.

TubeStack · 10-15-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyStrat54

... The next area of concern is wattage. Don't mix a 25 watt speaker with a 75 watt model. You can be off, but not by that much. I say keep it within 10 watts of each speaker.

Well, I actually went for two used Greenbacks, rather than the Eminence Guvernors, to mix with my two 75s... I've hear this is a common combination, no?

TubeStack · 10-15-2009, 11:27 PM

Doesn't it just mean that 25 watts will be fed to each speaker?

09-26-2009, 10:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
butterguitar Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 18	Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? Ok im a newbie here and it is time for me to get a new cab! I want to go Marshall! However I am not sure what kind of cab I want. The 1960A or the 1960AV. I understand both cabinets are slanted, and have different speakers in them. The 1960A is loaded with Celestion G12T-75 speakers and the 1960AV is loaded with Vintage 30's. From what I understand is the G12-75 speakers have scooped mids, more bass, and tight highs. While the vintage 30's have very good midrange, good highs, but I hear the bass repsonse is not the greatest. So here is my question, should I go for the Vintage 30's or the G12-75's? I want a speaker that cuts through the mix well. I use a fair amount of mids in my sound (around 5) and I cut my treble down to about 5, with my bass always around 8. I heard about Avatar speakers how you can mix speakers, but im worried about overall quailty :-/ The Celestions I have now are the Celestion 75's loaded in a Crate cabinet, which they are ok, but the tone isnt the best for me. My sound now sounds scooped, and I want to get away from that and be heard more lol. Any help I would appricate. I look forward to posting in the fourm By the way, my current head is a Bugera 1990, but im hoping to be going for a Marshall JVM soon!

09-26-2009, 10:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? Buy an old empty Marshall 800/900 cab and load them with MIE V30's and 75's in an X series pattern.

09-26-2009, 11:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
JohnH Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong NSW Posts: 640	Re: Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? have you seen these threads, with tests? Speaker test V30 v G12T75 v G12H30 v G12K100 and Vintage Modern through a bunch of cabinets John __________________ DSL401 8412 cab Crate Powerblock 1 x 12 Vintage 30 cab '76 Shergold Masquerader '93 Les Paul Studio '83 Roadstar

09-28-2009, 07:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? I've got a bunch of 1960cabs all with the 75 watters, I've always wanted to have V30's in there. Vintage 30's sound great. I really like the sound of my 75er's too but I've definitely wanted to do the "X" pattern trick with G12T75's/V30's. Warehouse speakers makes speakers modeled after Celestions for half the price, just throwing that out there cause I know the Marshall AV cabs are expensive. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

09-28-2009, 10:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? You can only do it if all speakers are the same ohms. Mixing 8ohm and 16ohm speakers in a 4x12 would give you some odd impedances. Different wattages are ok, but gotta stay right within the ohms. __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

10-09-2009, 12:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
marshallmellowed Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5	Re: Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? Either go with the AV, or plan on switching out 2 of the 75's with V30's or something similar. I originally bought the 1960A's, but ended up changing the speakers out. The 75's just don't have any mid range presence by themselves, from my experience. You do want to make sure what you mix with the 75's have the same impedence of the 75's (16 ohms). Also, the V30 is a more efficient speaker than the G12T75, and will be noticably louder, dominating the 75. Therefore, a 2x2 mix of the two will have more of a V30 character, but less harsh with a touch more bass response and compression from the 75's (I've done this combination).

10-14-2009, 09:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
MartyStrat54 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Formerly Phoenix, now north of KC Posts: 2,583	Re: Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? 95 per cent of the time a Marshall 4 x 12 cab designed for a tube amp is 16 ohm. All the speakers are 16 ohm. They are wired in series-parallel to obtain the 16 ohm rating. When mixing speakers, you want the efficiency of the speaker to be withing 1.5 dB of each other. Say one speaker is 102dB at one watt and the other is 101dB at one watt. This is acceptable. Going over 2dB's will result in one speaker being louder than the other, thereby drowning out the tones of the other speaker. The next area of concern is wattage. Don't mix a 25 watt speaker with a 75 watt model. You can be off, but not by that much. I say keep it within 10 watts of each speaker. __________________ MARTY 2009 Gibson Explorer-Hell Raising Machine 1989 Fender Strat Plus USA 2008 Fender Tele USA 2004 Schecter Elite w/DiMarzio's TSL100 with custom 4x12 cab. TSL122 with Man 'O War Speakers. TSL602 #1 with JBL D123 Speakers and 602 #2 with Altec 417 Speakers. "Oh so sweet my friends." DSL401 #1 with Red Fang Speaker and 401 #2 with JBL D123 Speaker. Tubes: Let's just say they are NOS that kick ass.

10-15-2009, 11:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
TubeStack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 182	Re: Trying to decide what speaker cab to get...1960A or 1960AV? Doesn't it just mean that 25 watts will be fed to each speaker? __________________ "And I'm sorry but I can't be kind about this, if you are bitching about "my Marshall is too loud" or "I need a hot plate or a PowerBake to manage the volume," then you don't need or deserve a Marshall all valve amplifier! ... You're like a guy that goes and buys 1970 Chevy SS 454 with 500 horse power and then puts his golf clubs in and drives around the golf course at 3MPH..." - MajorNut1967

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