2x12 Loud enough?

xophrax · 06-27-2009, 12:36 PM

Hey guys, I'm looking to buy a new cab, but I'm debating between a 2x12 and a 4x12. I like 4x12's, because I know they are loud enough, and I like 2 V30's and 2 G12T75's, but I need portability, so would a 2x12 be loud enough for loud band practices and gigs? I'll be using a JVM410H on it BTW.

Thanks

woodddj · 06-27-2009, 03:36 PM

why not buy two 2x12 cabs ? use one for practice and two to gig. that way you can have v30's in one cab and g12's in another. you might have to make another trip to the van to get the extra cab, but it will save your back in the long run. i wanted a 4x12 but got the 2x12 for that reason. then later on i built me a custom 2x12 cab to set under my other cab and now i have the extra air flow. not to mention, it looks pretty damn cool.

xophrax · 06-27-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodddj

why not buy two 2x12 cabs ? use one for practice and two to gig. that way you can have v30's in one cab and g12's in another. you might have to make another trip to the van to get the extra cab, but it will save your back in the long run. i wanted a 4x12 but got the 2x12 for that reason. then later on i built me a custom 2x12 cab to set under my other cab and now i have the extra air flow. not to mention, it looks pretty damn cool.

Yeah I guess thats pretty good, its just way more money, cuz I was gonna get a 4x12 custom Avatar for like $650 (with shipping), but if I do that I'll be getting two 2x12's for $500 each... but yeah, I like that idea! Thank You.

jchan · 07-15-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xophrax

Yeah I guess thats pretty good, its just way more money, cuz I was gonna get a 4x12 custom Avatar for like $650 (with shipping), but if I do that I'll be getting two 2x12's for $500 each... but yeah, I like that idea! Thank You.

How about going on ebay and buy 2 used Avatar Vintage 2x12's. Get one now and wait for a good deal on the second one.

They also have good deals on the Scratch n Dent section of the Avatar website at Scratch & Dent

American Viking · 07-15-2009, 10:38 PM

2x12's would essentially be loud enough but the idea of the 4x12 is that it covers more space so there is more sound to move not necessarily more volume. I think it would be better to have the 4x12 for rehearsal because the sound traveling covers more area and is easier to hear without being louder.

Go for the stacks, Marshall stacks!

nofearfactor · 07-16-2009, 05:51 AM

always a 412...

satchfan · 07-16-2009, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodddj

why not buy two 2x12 cabs ? use one for practice and two to gig. that way you can have v30's in one cab and g12's in another. you might have to make another trip to the van to get the extra cab, but it will save your back in the long run. i wanted a 4x12 but got the 2x12 for that reason. then later on i built me a custom 2x12 cab to set under my other cab and now i have the extra air flow. not to mention, it looks pretty damn cool.

Like this:-

http://www.marshallforum.com/attachm...eakers0004.jpg

Steve.

PaoloJM · 07-16-2009, 02:02 PM

It's not right to say a 4X12 will be louder than a 2X12.
I have a G12T-75 loaded 4X12 and a V30 loaded 2X12.
The 2X12 is louder!!
Detune the a 2X12, ie remove one speaker, and it will be even louder!!
This is true; a 2X12 with only one speaker fitted is louder than if the two speakers are fitted!!

It it fair to say that when loaded with the extact same speakers, then a 4X12 will appear to be slighly louder by virtue of more air moving, but SPL wise it won't be.

Webslinger · 07-17-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaoloJM

Detune the a 2X12, ie remove one speaker, and it will be even louder!!This is true; a 2X12 with only one speaker fitted is louder than if the two speakers are fitted!!

Very interesting?
Have you done this yourself? If so what speakers & what model cabinet?
Did you actually remove one speaker, or just disconnect it?
And if you removed it did you plug-up the other 12" hole, or leave it open?

clintonb · 08-31-2009, 01:45 PM

Resurrecting an old thread to share some of my thoughts:

A 100-watt amp through A 2x12 should be loud enough.
Speaker efficiency also plays a factor in loudness.
http://www.octasound.com/pdf/bulleti...d_solution.pdf

Now whether a 2x12 sounds as good as a 4x12 is another matter.
I've discovered that bigger cabinets sound better than smaller cabinets. They sound bigger and fuller. I think that's why we are seeing more "oversized" cabinets on the market today. Given a speaker configuration, e.g. a 1x12, an "oversized" cabinet will sound bigger than a typical 1x12 cabinet.

American Viking said a 4x12 spreads the sound better. But another way to spread the sound is to use the "detuned" approach mentioned by PaoloJM where you remove a speaker. If you search the internet, you'll find others that have discovered that removing a speaker doesn't really decrease the volume much (if at all).

Currently I use a cheap $69 2x12 cabinet from Shredz Music in which I installed only one speaker. So technically it is an oversized 1x12. It has way more bass and spreads the sound better than my bandmate's Marshall 1936 2x12 cab. It actually has too much bass. We both run Marshall 6100 amps with similar settings, except I have to run my bass controls at or near zero.

Check out these cabinets that use a "detuned" approach (they have openings in the front of the cab):
- Freda Live
- Port City Wave

Mills Acoustics also makes cabinets that reportedly have the spread of a Freda or Port City Wave cabinet yet have a tight bass response. I'd really like to try one myself.

I was worried about my 100-watt Marshall exceeding the power limits of my speaker (which handles 65 watts). But when I measured the number of watts actually output by the amp at the speaker at gig volumes, I discovered that I was only using about 5 watts max. I'm using a WGS Veteran 30 speaker which has a sensitivity rating of 100dB SPL for 1KHz signal at 1 meter.

MajorNut1967 · 08-31-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paolojm

it's not right to say a 4x12 will be louder than a 2x12.
I have a g12t-75 loaded 4x12 and a v30 loaded 2x12.
The 2x12 is louder!!
Detune the a 2x12, ie remove one speaker, and it will be even louder!!
This is true; a 2x12 with only one speaker fitted is louder than if the two speakers are fitted!!

It it fair to say that when loaded with the extact same speakers, then a 4x12 will appear to be slighly louder by virtue of more air moving, but spl wise it won't be.

thank you!

rockinr0ll · 08-31-2009, 05:54 PM

Today I got another beam blocker but unfortunetly relized that they caused rattle in my 1936. So while I was at it I had to make a change because "I am disappoint" (sorry if you don't get the reference) . I switched out a Vintage 30 for a 75 that is actually made in England (I didn't know). Sounds bad ass. 2x12 are great for semi-pro musicians.

Dave666 · 09-03-2009, 10:59 AM

I think an 2x12" is LOUD. Does anyone has some experience with the 2061CX cabinet?
It's like an 1960 cab but a bit smaller and comes with 2 G12H30 speakers

Webslinger · 09-03-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave666

I think an 2x12" is LOUD. Does anyone has some experience with the 2061CX cabinet? It's like an 1960 cab but a bit smaller and comes with 2 G12H30 speakers

Is that one of those old diagonally-mounted 2x12 bottom cabinets? I never heard one being played through, but they have a lot of air volume to utilize.

MaidenStrat02 · 09-03-2009, 04:33 PM

I use a Carvin Legacy 2x12 with Vintage 30's (120 Watts). It's plenty loud with my DSL. I do use Weber beam blockers and put it on a stand that's about 10" off the floor and angled back some. It has a half back so you can experiment with it closed or opened. I upgraded the wiring and sealed all the seams with silicon caulk to close any air leaks. It certainly does the job for me, I've never had mine past 5 1\2 to 6 on the Volume. I am thinking about trying some other type of speaker though. Keeping one V30 and trying a Greenback or some type of Weber.

Dave666 · 09-03-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webslinger

Is that one of those old diagonally-mounted 2x12 bottom cabinets? I never heard one being played through, but they have a lot of air volume to utilize.

Yep, that's the one :-)
They look cool alright, but I never heard or tested one, but I think they should sound even better with one G12H30 and one V30....

06-27-2009, 12:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
xophrax Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 135	2x12 Loud enough? Hey guys, I'm looking to buy a new cab, but I'm debating between a 2x12 and a 4x12. I like 4x12's, because I know they are loud enough, and I like 2 V30's and 2 G12T75's, but I need portability, so would a 2x12 be loud enough for loud band practices and gigs? I'll be using a JVM410H on it BTW. Thanks __________________ "Those who criticize our generation forget who raised it."

06-27-2009, 03:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
woodddj Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: alabama Posts: 259	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? why not buy two 2x12 cabs ? use one for practice and two to gig. that way you can have v30's in one cab and g12's in another. you might have to make another trip to the van to get the extra cab, but it will save your back in the long run. i wanted a 4x12 but got the 2x12 for that reason. then later on i built me a custom 2x12 cab to set under my other cab and now i have the extra air flow. not to mention, it looks pretty damn cool. __________________ AVT50X and AVT20X MG15MSII

07-15-2009, 10:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 1,510	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? 2x12's would essentially be loud enough but the idea of the 4x12 is that it covers more space so there is more sound to move not necessarily more volume. I think it would be better to have the 4x12 for rehearsal because the sound traveling covers more area and is easier to hear without being louder. Go for the stacks, Marshall stacks! __________________ -I'd rather be a good liver than have one...

07-16-2009, 05:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
nofearfactor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hellbillyville Posts: 178	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? always a 412... __________________ myspace- http://www.myspace.com/nofearfactor some gear pics- http://community.webshots.com/album/...ecurity=QbSaeN

07-16-2009, 02:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
PaoloJM Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 534	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? It's not right to say a 4X12 will be louder than a 2X12. I have a G12T-75 loaded 4X12 and a V30 loaded 2X12. The 2X12 is louder!! Detune the a 2X12, ie remove one speaker, and it will be even louder!! This is true; a 2X12 with only one speaker fitted is louder than if the two speakers are fitted!! It it fair to say that when loaded with the extact same speakers, then a 4X12 will appear to be slighly louder by virtue of more air moving, but SPL wise it won't be. __________________ www.youtube.com/paolojm

08-31-2009, 01:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
clintonb Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? Resurrecting an old thread to share some of my thoughts: A 100-watt amp through A 2x12 should be loud enough. Speaker efficiency also plays a factor in loudness. http://www.octasound.com/pdf/bulleti...d_solution.pdf Now whether a 2x12 sounds as good as a 4x12 is another matter. I've discovered that bigger cabinets sound better than smaller cabinets. They sound bigger and fuller. I think that's why we are seeing more "oversized" cabinets on the market today. Given a speaker configuration, e.g. a 1x12, an "oversized" cabinet will sound bigger than a typical 1x12 cabinet. American Viking said a 4x12 spreads the sound better. But another way to spread the sound is to use the "detuned" approach mentioned by PaoloJM where you remove a speaker. If you search the internet, you'll find others that have discovered that removing a speaker doesn't really decrease the volume much (if at all). Currently I use a cheap $69 2x12 cabinet from Shredz Music in which I installed only one speaker. So technically it is an oversized 1x12. It has way more bass and spreads the sound better than my bandmate's Marshall 1936 2x12 cab. It actually has too much bass. We both run Marshall 6100 amps with similar settings, except I have to run my bass controls at or near zero. Check out these cabinets that use a "detuned" approach (they have openings in the front of the cab): - Freda Live - Port City Wave Mills Acoustics also makes cabinets that reportedly have the spread of a Freda or Port City Wave cabinet yet have a tight bass response. I'd really like to try one myself. I was worried about my 100-watt Marshall exceeding the power limits of my speaker (which handles 65 watts). But when I measured the number of watts actually output by the amp at the speaker at gig volumes, I discovered that I was only using about 5 watts max. I'm using a WGS Veteran 30 speaker which has a sensitivity rating of 100dB SPL for 1KHz signal at 1 meter.

08-31-2009, 05:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? Today I got another beam blocker but unfortunetly relized that they caused rattle in my 1936. So while I was at it I had to make a change because "I am disappoint" (sorry if you don't get the reference) . I switched out a Vintage 30 for a 75 that is actually made in England (I didn't know). Sounds bad ass. 2x12 are great for semi-pro musicians.

09-03-2009, 10:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dave666 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Belgium Posts: 64	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? I think an 2x12" is LOUD. Does anyone has some experience with the 2061CX cabinet? It's like an 1960 cab but a bit smaller and comes with 2 G12H30 speakers __________________ Dave JCM800 2210 JCM800 2204 MKII JCM900 1960 LEAD cab JCM800 LEAD-1982 cab 1960 AX cab Randall RH100 1988 Gibson Explorer 90 with steinberger whammy Gibson SG Special Faded Cherry Gibson Flying V Faded Cherry An old BC-Rich Mockingbird with one EMG85

09-03-2009, 04:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
MaidenStrat02 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Rue Morgue Posts: 147	Re: 2x12 Loud enough? I use a Carvin Legacy 2x12 with Vintage 30's (120 Watts). It's plenty loud with my DSL. I do use Weber beam blockers and put it on a stand that's about 10" off the floor and angled back some. It has a half back so you can experiment with it closed or opened. I upgraded the wiring and sealed all the seams with silicon caulk to close any air leaks. It certainly does the job for me, I've never had mine past 5 1\2 to 6 on the Volume. I am thinking about trying some other type of speaker though. Keeping one V30 and trying a Greenback or some type of Weber. __________________ Gibson '07 SG 2 Customized Fender Strats Modded DSL50 MM choke,PT&OT Carvin 2x12 V30's Pitchblack-LPB-1-Budda Wah-TS808. Loop= 108EQ-Modded Phase 90-Carbon Copy-George L cables-Voodoo Pedal Power 2 Plus-Pedaltrain board Contact for Facebook request

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