Red 4x12

theflyingmat · 02-27-2010, 05:00 PM

Hi,

Can any one give me a rough idea of the era and value of the cab. It a Marshall 4x12 in RED, c/w green backs. It has metal handles and checkerboard front and no corner protectors

Cheers
TFM

george76 · 02-27-2010, 05:31 PM

sounds like 1971 to me. or one thats been recovered.

I saw a red cab from 1972 a couple of years back. it had plastic handles though.

got any pics?

theflyingmat · 02-27-2010, 06:10 PM

Cheers, I'll try and get some up soon.

Ken · 02-28-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyingmat

Cheers, I'll try and get some up soon.

Metal handles suggests it's old and valuable; no corners isn't right if the tolex is as-new. It's the speakers that are the most important although even empty vintage cabinets with original metal handles will sell for several hundred (or more) dollars.

Ken

anthonyr · 02-28-2010, 10:14 AM

How the hell do people stumble onto stuff like this? Jeez

theflyingmat · 02-28-2010, 05:44 PM

I hope these pics come out ok. So any ideas? I've not been in to the back of it to see if the speakers are original or not.

george76 · 03-01-2010, 04:16 AM

looks like mid 1971 to me. best thing to do is take the back off and see whats in there. the speaker date codes should confirm it as 1971, or could tell another story altogether.

one thing to check is the handles, are they screwed on or riveted on? rivets would suggest 1971, screws would suggest an earlier cab.

the only reason i say that is because the grill cloth looks a bit wonky and might not be original. it could be an earlier basketweave that has been re-grilled. worth checking.

if all goes well you should have some pulsonic cone greenbacks in there.

looks an awesome cab by the way. value-wise if the speakers are original, its gotta be worth a good £800, maybe a bit more. custom colour cabs are always sought after by collectors. the 72 cab I saw with plastic handles went for about £650 a couple of years ago.

theflyingmat · 03-01-2010, 05:28 AM

Thanks for the reply george76. It has screws on the handles (cross heads or Philips whatever they are called) I have seen inside the cab before I bought it and it is green backs, but I suppose that does not mean they are original speakers. They looked like the speakers in my bottom cab (see aviator). I agree the checkboard looks a little wonky. I might be that the tolex is original and the grill has been refinished. I'll try and get into the back of the cab soon, but my wife is getting out of the hospital today, so don't want the upheaval of taking the back off etc. I suppose with the changed grill and maybe different speakers, the value will plummet. It sounds ace though. Just trying to figure out if I should sell it due to it being more 'sellable' than the scruffy bass cab.
B

theflyingmat · 03-01-2010, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyr

How the hell do people stumble onto stuff like this? Jeez

I think it's because we stay in the UK. I think it might be the same as you guys in the US finding bargain Les Paul Jnrs and LG-01 guitars etc.

george76 · 03-01-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyingmat

Thanks for the reply george76. It has screws on the handles (cross heads or Philips whatever they are called) I have seen inside the cab before I bought it and it is green backs, but I suppose that does not mean they are original speakers. They looked like the speakers in my bottom cab (see aviator). I agree the checkboard looks a little wonky. I might be that the tolex is original and the grill has been refinished. I'll try and get into the back of the cab soon, but my wife is getting out of the hospital today, so don't want the upheaval of taking the back off etc. I suppose with the changed grill and maybe different speakers, the value will plummet. It sounds ace though. Just trying to figure out if I should sell it due to it being more 'sellable' than the scruffy bass cab.
B

Could be an earlier cab with a replaced grill cloth then.

Or possibly they replaced the rivets with screws when they put the handles back on (they would have had to take the handles off to get the baffle board out to replace the grill cloth).

The tolex looks original to me. If not, they did a good job putting everything back on properly, serial tags etc.

I had a 71 checkerboard cabinet with metal handles and the serial no started with a 4. Yours starts with a 2, which seems much earlier to me.

Id be itching to get that back off if it were mine.

Another way to date it without taking the back off is to look at the bottom and see what casters have been installed on it. Perhaps post a pic? Im not 100% on this but I think the push-in type casters were used in the 60's, and in the 70's they used the screw on type.

When you get the back off also have a look what the back panel is made from. Very few checkerboard cabs have a birch ply back panel, usually they are particle board.

theflyingmat · 03-01-2010, 12:51 PM

Ok cheers. I'll get on the case in a day or so and post back up my findings

theflyingmat · 03-04-2010, 02:54 PM

Okay I've had the back off. The speakers look very new to me. They are
G12M 25 watt 75 c/s 16ohm green backs with gold labels. There's also some ink stamps on them.
T1221
HB120
QC 59 RC

The back is ply, and the casters are push in.

So is this a 60's cab with new speakers and grill cloth?

cheers

janarn · 03-04-2010, 04:27 PM

Could be a '69 basketweave cab with new grillcloth.
Pre-Rola speakers? Pictures of the inside?

george76 · 03-04-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyingmat

Okay I've had the back off. The speakers look very new to me. They are
G12M 25 watt 75 c/s 16ohm green backs with gold labels. There's also some ink stamps on them.
T1221
HB120
QC 59 RC

The back is ply, and the casters are push in.

So is this a 60's cab with new speakers and grill cloth?

cheers

I think it is safe to say its a 69 cab with replaced grill cloth. In other words an excellent score!!!!

I would say the speakers are original. Do they have the Thames Ditton address or Ipswich? HB12 is the date code for 12th August 1969.

If they have a white '102 003' stamp on the cones then they are original too. They may be hard to see without using a mirror as they can be high up near the top of the speaker.

You should see two small triangles at the bottom sides of the baffle board, this will confirm it as a 69.

Pics of the inside and speakers would definitely help clarify.

psphill27 · 03-04-2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyingmat

Thanks for the reply george76. It has screws on the handles (cross heads or Philips whatever they are called) I have seen inside the cab before I bought it and it is green backs, but I suppose that does not mean they are original speakers. They looked like the speakers in my bottom cab (see aviator). I agree the checkboard looks a little wonky. I might be that the tolex is original and the grill has been refinished. I'll try and get into the back of the cab soon, but my wife is getting out of the hospital today, so don't want the upheaval of taking the back off etc. I suppose with the changed grill and maybe different speakers, the value will plummet. It sounds ace though. Just trying to figure out if I should sell it due to it being more 'sellable' than the scruffy bass cab.
B

No way I'd sell that thing. It's an awesome cab...KEEP IT!!!

theflyingmat · 03-05-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george76

I think it is safe to say its a 69 cab with replaced grill cloth. In other words an excellent score!!!!

I would say the speakers are original. Do they have the Thames Ditton address or Ipswich? HB12 is the date code for 12th August 1969.

If they have a white '102 003' stamp on the cones then they are original too. They may be hard to see without using a mirror as they can be high up near the top of the speaker.

You should see two small triangles at the bottom sides of the baffle board, this will confirm it as a 69.

Pics of the inside and speakers would definitely help clarify.

I'll get some more pix up soon. I think it stated Thames Ditton on the speakers.

"Two small triangles"...of wood?

george76 · 03-05-2010, 05:42 PM

yes two wooden triangles at the bottom left and right like on this one...

(pic robbed from another forum, sorry if its yours)

they are just there to secure the inserts of the casters. earlier cabs used a single wooden strip, later cabs dont have either because they used screw in casters instead and didnt need them. only 69 cabs have the triangles.

are you going to tell us how much you paid for the beast? im guessing not a lot.

theflyingmat · 03-05-2010, 06:31 PM

Ok I'll check tomorrow..hopefully.

TBH it was not that cheap. I paid £425 for it last year. I put it for sale on another forum (local) for £425 ono and got no takers so I thought I was asking too much for it hence why I thought I'd check it out on here and ask how much it was worth. I thought at least 400, but it might be more now...is it?
I did get a bargain with my JCM 800 and my SL-X. £75 for 800 combo, and £150 for the 900 50watt head and matching cab. Result!

george76 · 03-05-2010, 07:45 PM

Id say it is easily worth over a grand, but I think I would hang onto it if I were you rather than selling it. It can only go up in value and with the recession at the moment people arent paying what they used to do a couple of years ago for vintage gear. Sell something else instead if you need the money.

Also I would restore it as best as possible to original spec. old basketweave cloths turn up on ebay every now and again, but expect to pay about £100 for one. sounds a lot of money but its worth it.

If you can staple a basketweave cloth onto it, it will increase its value.

You could get a new salt and pepper cloth for it but buying a genuine old one is definitely the better option.

Im not sure if the 9" logo is original, or if it would have had the earlier 6" gold face logo. you will know for sure when you take the grill cloth off and have a look at the holes in the front of the baffle board.

Music ground sell the best 6" repro logos but they are £40 a pop.

theflyingmat · 03-07-2010, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george76

Id say it is easily worth over a grand, but I think I would hang onto it if I were you rather than selling it. It can only go up in value and with the recession at the moment people arent paying what they used to do a couple of years ago for vintage gear. Sell something else instead if you need the money.

Also I would restore it as best as possible to original spec. old basketweave cloths turn up on ebay every now and again, but expect to pay about £100 for one. sounds a lot of money but its worth it.

If you can staple a basketweave cloth onto it, it will increase its value.

You could get a new salt and pepper cloth for it but buying a genuine old one is definitely the better option.

Im not sure if the 9" logo is original, or if it would have had the earlier 6" gold face logo. you will know for sure when you take the grill cloth off and have a look at the holes in the front of the baffle board.

Music ground sell the best 6" repro logos but they are £40 a pop.

Thanks george76. How will I know about the holes....is it a spacing thing?
cheers
B

george76 · 03-07-2010, 05:35 AM

the holes for a 6" logo are all in a straight line, there are 5 or 6 holes i cant remember exactly.

the holes for a 9" (and 11" logos) are all over the place.

one way to check yours is to pull on the logo. If the grill cloth cloth moves with it then its probably just glued on to the front of the grill cloth.

If there is no movement it is on the normal way, with the pins of the logo into the holes of the cabinet. The logo is probably original if this happens, but someone could have drilled extra holes so its worth checking for the 6" ones.

theflyingmat · 03-07-2010, 11:50 AM

Okay, that's one mystery solved perhaps. The logo is glued on. No pins used. So it most likely has been recovered then.

theflyingmat · 03-07-2010, 01:22 PM

okay, here's more pics. Sorry I can't seem to get them copied to the thread, but here's the links. The inside cross members seem different from the one shown in this thread earlier by george76.

White number picture by theflyingmat - Photobucket

Inside corners picture by theflyingmat - Photobucket

IMG_0680.jpg picture by theflyingmat - Photobucket

Cheers

george76 · 03-07-2010, 03:44 PM

looks good to me. safe to say thats a 69 with original speakers. just had the grill cloth replaced.

the wood in the center is different because yours is an angled or top cab. the one i showed you is a bottom/straight front cab.

very nice cabinet. just needs a basketweave grill.

its possible that logo is original but had the pins clipped off the back and been glued back on.

I spotted these red 69's on google image search and they have 9" logos, but they also have the later screw on casters. Yours has the earlier push-in casters, so the ones in these pics would not have the triangles inside like yours has...

http://www.nealsvintage.com/images/a...Stack-page.jpg

Id bet good money on yours being a 6" logo cab, but as I said you will only really know by taking the grill cloth off. Unless you want to spend ages poking around with a pin or something looking for the holes.

theflyingmat · 03-07-2010, 04:32 PM

http://www.nealsvintage.com/images/a...Stack-page.jpg

Id bet good money on yours being a 6" logo cab, but as I said you will only really know by taking the grill cloth off. Unless you want to spend ages poking around with a pin or something looking for the holes.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link.

I've tried poking around with a pin but can't find any holes as such, just the join between the cross member and the logo back plate. I did measure the length of the back plate and it was 9" long. I measured the back plate on my 70's bottom cab (in my aviator) and that one was over 10 1/2" long. Not sure if this is conclusive or not.

So any ideas on the value of this cab if:
A - I keep it as it is
or
B - Try to get the proper grill and logo fitted

Cheers
B

george76 · 03-07-2010, 05:10 PM

If you can find the gap between the pieces of wood the holes are usually just above that. Ive got the approximate measurements written down somewhere I will get back to you with them, should help you locate them.

Im no expert on valuations but id say you should get £1500 for it with a good looking genuine marshall basketweave grill cloth from that period on it. possibly more with it being red. Custom colour cabs are quite rare.

With a repro grill cloth perhaps £1200-1300

In its present condition you might only get about £600 for it, or you might get upto a grand for it. The hard part is convincing people its a basketweave with a replaced grill cloth on it. Not everyone will be convinced, or have the level of knowledge to recognise it for what it is. You would be targeting a minority of buyers in my opinion.

i would hang on to it, at least until you can get a proper grill cloth for it.

like i said, times are hard at the minute and few people are forking out on vintage marshall gear. its mainly dealers and bargain hunters picking stuff up cheap and keeping hold of them til things get better.

rykus · 03-08-2010, 12:26 AM

69 was also the last year of the basket style and the introductoin of the new black and white cloth.... could be speakers were at the factory when they started the 70 style grill cloth. i'd get it really checked out cause changing to a non original cover would de value it... there's a 74 red cab @ pmblues for 2500 so i'd hold it till you figure out how original it is, or sell it too me!!!

george76 · 03-08-2010, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rykus

69 was also the last year of the basket style and the introductoin of the new black and white cloth.... could be speakers were at the factory when they started the 70 style grill cloth.

that is plain wrong. basketweave was used until around March 71. then came the checkerboard cloth. Ive owned both basketweave and checkerboards from 71.

most basketweave cabs were 'salt and pepper' (black and white) its just that they go brown over time and this misleads people. I think only the purple cabs were given actual brown basketweave.

if you want a second opinion ask around on the vintage amp forum. or email someone knowledgeable like jim seavell at scumback speakers.

theflyingmat · 03-09-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george76

that is plain wrong. basketweave was used until around March 71. then came the checkerboard cloth. Ive owned both basketweave and checkerboards from 71.

most basketweave cabs were 'salt and pepper' (black and white) its just that they go brown over time and this misleads people. I think only the purple cabs were given actual brown basketweave.

if you want a second opinion ask around on the vintage amp forum. or email someone knowledgeable like jim seavell at scumback speakers.

Thanks to all for the comments and advice, especially george76. BTW were you talking about the vintage amp forum on this Marshall forum or another different one?
Cheers

george76 · 03-09-2010, 03:47 PM

Vintage Amps Bulletin Board • Index page

I'll get you those measurements tomorrow to locate your logo holes.

02-27-2010, 05:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Red 4x12 Hi, Can any one give me a rough idea of the era and value of the cab. It a Marshall 4x12 in RED, c/w green backs. It has metal handles and checkerboard front and no corner protectors Cheers TFM __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

02-27-2010, 05:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 sounds like 1971 to me. or one thats been recovered. I saw a red cab from 1972 a couple of years back. it had plastic handles though. got any pics?

02-27-2010, 06:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 Cheers, I'll try and get some up soon. __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

02-28-2010, 10:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
anthonyr Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Clearwater Florida Posts: 247	Re: Red 4x12 How the hell do people stumble onto stuff like this? Jeez

02-28-2010, 05:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 I hope these pics come out ok. So any ideas? I've not been in to the back of it to see if the speakers are original or not. __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

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03-01-2010, 04:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 looks like mid 1971 to me. best thing to do is take the back off and see whats in there. the speaker date codes should confirm it as 1971, or could tell another story altogether. one thing to check is the handles, are they screwed on or riveted on? rivets would suggest 1971, screws would suggest an earlier cab. the only reason i say that is because the grill cloth looks a bit wonky and might not be original. it could be an earlier basketweave that has been re-grilled. worth checking. if all goes well you should have some pulsonic cone greenbacks in there. looks an awesome cab by the way. value-wise if the speakers are original, its gotta be worth a good £800, maybe a bit more. custom colour cabs are always sought after by collectors. the 72 cab I saw with plastic handles went for about £650 a couple of years ago.

03-01-2010, 05:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 Thanks for the reply george76. It has screws on the handles (cross heads or Philips whatever they are called) I have seen inside the cab before I bought it and it is green backs, but I suppose that does not mean they are original speakers. They looked like the speakers in my bottom cab (see aviator). I agree the checkboard looks a little wonky. I might be that the tolex is original and the grill has been refinished. I'll try and get into the back of the cab soon, but my wife is getting out of the hospital today, so don't want the upheaval of taking the back off etc. I suppose with the changed grill and maybe different speakers, the value will plummet. It sounds ace though. Just trying to figure out if I should sell it due to it being more 'sellable' than the scruffy bass cab. B __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

03-01-2010, 12:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 Ok cheers. I'll get on the case in a day or so and post back up my findings __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

03-04-2010, 02:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 Okay I've had the back off. The speakers look very new to me. They are G12M 25 watt 75 c/s 16ohm green backs with gold labels. There's also some ink stamps on them. T1221 HB120 QC 59 RC The back is ply, and the casters are push in. So is this a 60's cab with new speakers and grill cloth? cheers __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

03-04-2010, 04:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
janarn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 961	Re: Red 4x12 Could be a '69 basketweave cab with new grillcloth. Pre-Rola speakers? Pictures of the inside?

03-05-2010, 05:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 yes two wooden triangles at the bottom left and right like on this one... (pic robbed from another forum, sorry if its yours) they are just there to secure the inserts of the casters. earlier cabs used a single wooden strip, later cabs dont have either because they used screw in casters instead and didnt need them. only 69 cabs have the triangles. are you going to tell us how much you paid for the beast? im guessing not a lot.

03-05-2010, 06:31 PM	#18 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 Ok I'll check tomorrow..hopefully. TBH it was not that cheap. I paid £425 for it last year. I put it for sale on another forum (local) for £425 ono and got no takers so I thought I was asking too much for it hence why I thought I'd check it out on here and ask how much it was worth. I thought at least 400, but it might be more now...is it? I did get a bargain with my JCM 800 and my SL-X. £75 for 800 combo, and £150 for the 900 50watt head and matching cab. Result! __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

03-05-2010, 07:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 Id say it is easily worth over a grand, but I think I would hang onto it if I were you rather than selling it. It can only go up in value and with the recession at the moment people arent paying what they used to do a couple of years ago for vintage gear. Sell something else instead if you need the money. Also I would restore it as best as possible to original spec. old basketweave cloths turn up on ebay every now and again, but expect to pay about £100 for one. sounds a lot of money but its worth it. If you can staple a basketweave cloth onto it, it will increase its value. You could get a new salt and pepper cloth for it but buying a genuine old one is definitely the better option. Im not sure if the 9" logo is original, or if it would have had the earlier 6" gold face logo. you will know for sure when you take the grill cloth off and have a look at the holes in the front of the baffle board. Music ground sell the best 6" repro logos but they are £40 a pop.

03-07-2010, 05:35 AM	#21 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 the holes for a 6" logo are all in a straight line, there are 5 or 6 holes i cant remember exactly. the holes for a 9" (and 11" logos) are all over the place. one way to check yours is to pull on the logo. If the grill cloth cloth moves with it then its probably just glued on to the front of the grill cloth. If there is no movement it is on the normal way, with the pins of the logo into the holes of the cabinet. The logo is probably original if this happens, but someone could have drilled extra holes so its worth checking for the 6" ones.

03-07-2010, 11:50 AM	#22 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 Okay, that's one mystery solved perhaps. The logo is glued on. No pins used. So it most likely has been recovered then. __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

03-07-2010, 01:22 PM	#23 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 okay, here's more pics. Sorry I can't seem to get them copied to the thread, but here's the links. The inside cross members seem different from the one shown in this thread earlier by george76. White number picture by theflyingmat - Photobucket Inside corners picture by theflyingmat - Photobucket IMG_0680.jpg picture by theflyingmat - Photobucket Cheers __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

03-07-2010, 03:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 looks good to me. safe to say thats a 69 with original speakers. just had the grill cloth replaced. the wood in the center is different because yours is an angled or top cab. the one i showed you is a bottom/straight front cab. very nice cabinet. just needs a basketweave grill. its possible that logo is original but had the pins clipped off the back and been glued back on. I spotted these red 69's on google image search and they have 9" logos, but they also have the later screw on casters. Yours has the earlier push-in casters, so the ones in these pics would not have the triangles inside like yours has... http://www.nealsvintage.com/images/a...Stack-page.jpg Id bet good money on yours being a 6" logo cab, but as I said you will only really know by taking the grill cloth off. Unless you want to spend ages poking around with a pin or something looking for the holes.

03-07-2010, 04:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
theflyingmat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Peternapper Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Red 4x12 http://www.nealsvintage.com/images/a...Stack-page.jpg Id bet good money on yours being a 6" logo cab, but as I said you will only really know by taking the grill cloth off. Unless you want to spend ages poking around with a pin or something looking for the holes.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the link. I've tried poking around with a pin but can't find any holes as such, just the join between the cross member and the logo back plate. I did measure the length of the back plate and it was 9" long. I measured the back plate on my 70's bottom cab (in my aviator) and that one was over 10 1/2" long. Not sure if this is conclusive or not. So any ideas on the value of this cab if: A - I keep it as it is or B - Try to get the proper grill and logo fitted Cheers B __________________ DSL 50watt Head JMP MII 50watt Head JCM900 SL-X 50watt Head JCM900 4x12 Angled Cab 60's/70's 4x12 Base & Angled Cabs 70's 2x12 Checkerboard Cab Artiste 2x12 combo 30th 6101 & Ext cab JCM 800 4221 combo Guitars: Gibson LP G/Top 56RI, Gibson LP Custom 80, Gibson LP L/Burst, Gibson SG Jnr 63, Gibson M/Maker P90, Fender Bullet USA, Fender Tele 62RI MIJ, Robin Artisan, Moon Rhubard&Custard

03-07-2010, 05:10 PM	#26 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 If you can find the gap between the pieces of wood the holes are usually just above that. Ive got the approximate measurements written down somewhere I will get back to you with them, should help you locate them. Im no expert on valuations but id say you should get £1500 for it with a good looking genuine marshall basketweave grill cloth from that period on it. possibly more with it being red. Custom colour cabs are quite rare. With a repro grill cloth perhaps £1200-1300 In its present condition you might only get about £600 for it, or you might get upto a grand for it. The hard part is convincing people its a basketweave with a replaced grill cloth on it. Not everyone will be convinced, or have the level of knowledge to recognise it for what it is. You would be targeting a minority of buyers in my opinion. i would hang on to it, at least until you can get a proper grill cloth for it. like i said, times are hard at the minute and few people are forking out on vintage marshall gear. its mainly dealers and bargain hunters picking stuff up cheap and keeping hold of them til things get better.

03-08-2010, 12:26 AM	#27 (permalink)
rykus Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 126	Re: Red 4x12 69 was also the last year of the basket style and the introductoin of the new black and white cloth.... could be speakers were at the factory when they started the 70 style grill cloth. i'd get it really checked out cause changing to a non original cover would de value it... there's a 74 red cab @ pmblues for 2500 so i'd hold it till you figure out how original it is, or sell it too me!!!

03-09-2010, 03:47 PM	#30 (permalink)
george76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 735	Re: Red 4x12 Vintage Amps Bulletin Board • Index page I'll get you those measurements tomorrow to locate your logo holes.

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