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Unread 12-12-2009, 05:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Marshall JCM 900 Cab

I have a Marshall JCM 900 Lead 1960 cab and I was just wondering how good it is?

Anyone care to voice an opinion and let me know if it is decent or not?

Thanks
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Unread 12-12-2009, 05:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

My opinion is that it is one of the most beautiful looking cabs but I am not happy with the sound design. Especially with 75 watt celstions. I have taken speakers out of better sounding cabs and loaded them into the 1960A. Though it improved the sound of the 1960A cab, it was not an improvment over the original cab loaded with the same speakers.

I am loyal to Marshall Tube Amplification but think the cabs could use some work.

Here is a video about the 1960 cab that may help you out.

I skip the GARDEN HOSE step. Good Luck, David.






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Unread 12-12-2009, 05:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Cool thanks man.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 06:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

That video has been on this forum many times. Here is the link to the most recent one. As you will see, it was met with much ridicule.

Can Tone secrets

I do a lot of cab work and I did a 900 with an X pattern of Eminence Texas Heat's and Governor's. It kicked ass. This is just a suggestion and gives you an option over using Celestions. The main thing is to keep an open mind and realize that there are a variety of killer guitar speakers.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 06:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

If I have to go changing speakers then the cab is just mediocre at best eh?

There is no way I am going to go ripping into my cabinet like that video. Not only will it not sound better it probably won't work after I am done.

A man has to know his limitations.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 06:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

I feel the 1960 cabs are the best cabinents around!
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Unread 12-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Hey WEG, you do have G12-75's in there, correct? If so, they have sort of a love-hate acceptance here on the forum.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 06:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

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Originally Posted by MartyStrat54 View Post
Hey WEG, you do have G12-75's in there, correct? If so, they have sort of a love-hate acceptance here on the forum.
I have no idea whats in it. Is it easy for me to look?
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Unread 12-12-2009, 06:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Sorry about the Video. I am kind of new here too. I didn't agree with everything ole Bob had to say but I thought some of it might get through. I guess we all can't be know it alls, LOL.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 07:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

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Originally Posted by NewReligion View Post
Sorry about the Video. I am kind of new here too. I didn't agree with everything ole Bob had to say but I thought some of it might get through. I guess we all can't be know it alls, LOL.
No worries man. Your trying to help and I appreciate that. I am sure some of that stuff does work.

The thing is I am not a hands on guy when it comes to this stuff. Biasing my amp scares the Hell out of me and tearing into my cab is also a recipe for disaster.

Rolling tubes is the extent of my technical amp involvement.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 08:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Yeah, I would take the back off and check. Who knows, you may have the holy grail of speakers in there. Anyway, it would be a good time to snug up all of the screws.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 08:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

I will take it apart and check.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 08:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Wegman, don't sweat biasing. It is something you need to learn to do.

Once you understand what is going on you will figure out why all of the Pro's amps sound so damned good and offten don't need pushed with an OD pedal. I know enough to keep my Marshalls sounding tip top but not nearly as much as some of these guys do. However I can play and that is where I focus. I push the amps harder, sometimes much harder than most techs and forums would ever advise. It's all about the tone. Nothing sucks worse than playing over a cold biased amp.

Wow, I bet I get jumped on by the tech guru's for that statement, LOL.

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Unread 12-12-2009, 09:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

For the speakers, the JCM900 cabs came with G12T-75s. Not bad speakers but they tend to scoop out the mids. They sound great in combination with a V30. In my cab, I combined them with a pair of Celestion Century speakers.

For metal styles or when you want a lot of solid bottom end (think SRV), they're good but for blusier styles, you definitely need to combine them with a speakers that have more mids.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 09:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Thanks, I thought they had G12-75's. As I said, some people love them and some people have to mix V30's with them in the cab. I'm with you. I think they are a little thin in the mid department.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 12:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

I swapped out three of my G12T-75s with a pair of Greenback G12M-25s, and one G12H-30 Heritage. Nothing really wrong with the cab, but you may also want to upgrade the speakers.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 03:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewReligion View Post
It's all about the tone.
No it is NOT all about the tone. There is an electrical design limit to these things...and yes I see that you stated that you did put the disclaimer in there and state that you run yours hotter than safely adviseable. That's your thing...you do what you want. You know the risks involved.

However, saying things like "It's all about the tone" on a message board full of guitarists who have no clue as to what bias even is gets them thinking "Well if he's doing it and getting that badass of a sound I'm gonna do it too", while not realizing that there is in fact an electrical limit and that there are in fact risks involved with it.

Now I know that you're aware of the risks involved, but I just thought I'd add this for those who aren't -

Amplifiers have electrical design limits that should be respected and adhered by. Bias setting is one of them. If one should decide to exceed these limits, then be ready to suffer the consequences should you happen to blow something expensive.

Just because a particular practice sounds cool doesn't mean it's good for the amp.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 03:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewReligion View Post
It's all about the tone.
No it is NOT all about the tone. There is an electrical design limit to these things...and yes I see that you stated that you did put the disclaimer in there and state that you run yours hotter than safely adviseable. That's your thing...you do what you want. You know the risks involved.

However, saying things like "It's all about the tone" on a message board full of guitarists who have no clue as to what bias even is gets them thinking "Well if he's doing it and getting that badass of a sound I'm gonna do it too", while not realizing that there is in fact an electrical limit and that there are in fact risks involved with it.

Now I know that you're aware of the risks involved, but I just thought I'd add this for those who aren't -

Amplifiers have electrical design limits that should be respected and adhered by. Bias setting is one of them. If one should decide to exceed these limits, then be ready to suffer the consequences should you happen to blow something expensive.

Just because a particular practice sounds cool doesn't mean it's good for the amp.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 05:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Of course safety matters. I didn'y say set the damned thing on fire. I have owned over 60 heads over the last 38 years and have never destroyed one of them. Thank God for guys like Edward Van Halen who knew enough to be safe but know what he was after. Go ahead and tell him it's not all about the tone. SAFETY first!! This is not a pissing contest. I have been on this thread long enough to know that there are a couple of guys that feel they must always have the last word. Sounds as if I touched a nerve. Please post some examples of your fine playing and tones. Best wishes

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Unread 12-13-2009, 08:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification View Post
No it is NOT all about the tone. There is an electrical design limit to these things...and yes I see that you stated that you did put the disclaimer in there and state that you run yours hotter than safely adviseable. That's your thing...you do what you want. You know the risks involved.

However, saying things like "It's all about the tone" on a message board full of guitarists who have no clue as to what bias even is gets them thinking "Well if he's doing it and getting that badass of a sound I'm gonna do it too", while not realizing that there is in fact an electrical limit and that there are in fact risks involved with it.

Now I know that you're aware of the risks involved, but I just thought I'd add this for those who aren't -

Amplifiers have electrical design limits that should be respected and adhered by. Bias setting is one of them. If one should decide to exceed these limits, then be ready to suffer the consequences should you happen to blow something expensive.

Just because a particular practice sounds cool doesn't mean it's good for the amp.
I guess that what NewReligion is trying to say is that doing something like cranking your amp to 10 is not recommended because you're going way over the limits of what the amp was designed for but a lot of people do it anyways. A 50w amp will push out much more than 50w when cranked into power tube distortion. He did say to keep the gear in good operating condition though.

Just like pushing speakers into distortion can sound great.

By doing this kinda stuff, you're running the risk of blowing speakers (if you're running a 100w head through a 100w cab) or blowing your amp.

Hendrix used to blow stuff up all the time. Things got better with the G12H-30. It could handle the abuse a little better. Remember, when Hendrix started out, the most powerful Celestion was the 25w greenback. Doing what he did today would be just plain stupid IMO.

Just use your common sense.

The original poster has a 300w cab, so I wouldn't be too worried about the speaker rating. Going to a set of g12H speaker would give him a 120w cab, which should be fine with a 100w amp (but I've heard of people blowing those with a cranked 100 watter).
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Unread 12-13-2009, 12:06 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewReligion View Post
Please post some examples of your fine playing and tones.
OK...it's not about getting the last word in. But you come on making the statement "It's all about tone" when all I was saying was that "No it is NOT all about tone. There is an electrical side to these amps that must be adhered to unless you wanna blow your shit up all the time."

As was stated previously in another thread -

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyStrat54
You see, there are people here that are very concerned about what people post. If it's incorrect, we don't want it posted. It's that simple. When working on amps, there are the correct, proven methods of doing certain adjustments. That's what we want posted. It's not about it being funny, or not taking a joke, or being too serious. It's about people you do not know that are reading what you posted and thinking it's a correct approach/technique because it's on the forum.
Now if you wanna continue to do what you're doing to your own amps...well, they're your amps. Do as you wish with them. But we respectfully ask that you NOT post up statements such as "It's all about tone" as if the electrical side of the amp doesn't matter at all. Moreover, if you're going to post up anything about biasing amps way hotter than you should be, it would be a huge benefit to all who might read it if you would post the disclaimer stating that your method is NOT a proper method as well as all the electrical risks involved should one decide to do it. By electrical risks I'm not ONLY referring to getting shocked. I'm also referring to the electrical failures that can and will eventually happen should one decide to go this route.

And since you asked -

http://www.wilderamplification.com/s...icclassic1.mp3

http://www.wilderamplification.com/s...icclassic2.mp3

http://www.wilderamplification.com/s.../Original1.mp3

JCMJMP, cranking the amp isn't what NewReligion was referring to (God knows I would NEVER preach against that). He's referring to the fact that he biases the amp well above the 70% maximum dissipation.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 12:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder Amplification View Post

http://www.wilderamplification.com/s...icclassic1.mp3

http://www.wilderamplification.com/s...icclassic2.mp3

http://www.wilderamplification.com/s.../Original1.mp3

JCMJMP, cranking the amp isn't what NewReligion was referring to (God knows I would NEVER preach against that). He's referring to the fact that he biases the amp well above the 70% maximum dissipation.
Cool - I didn't catch that (I wouldn't bias over 70% - Its just a waste at that point). I LOVE cranking the shit out of my JTM45. Sound guys? Yeah, not as much. Its biased at 65%. Sounds awesome.

nice clips BTW. It sucks that you have to come down to the level of having to post your clips to prove anything. Sad day!
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Unread 12-13-2009, 12:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Sorry to hijack....

Rockin' clips, Jon. Great tone on the last one, what was the rig on that?
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Unread 12-13-2009, 12:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adwex View Post
Sorry to hijack....

Rockin' clips, Jon. Great tone on the last one, what was the rig on that?
Thanks JCMJMP and Adwex.

Last rig was the same as the one in the first two, just different cab (really goes to show you just how much of an impact different speakers have on your tone). The first two clips was my original '73 straight cab I used to have (got ripped off along with my massive PA 3 years ago...****ERS!!!) with original 55Hz G12H-30s.

Obviously for the Atomic Punk clip I had the MXR Phase 90 with the speed at the slowest setting.

Les Paul w/EMG 81 Neck/85 Bridge plugged straight in
Super Lead clone w/Sozo Mustard Standard caps, '69 spec, bone stock w/3.3H choke, JJ E34Ls and JJ ECC83 valves, biased to 65%
All knobs flat out dimed with the exception of Volume II, which was at 12:00
Marshall Power Brake on first setting from fully off
Mojo slant Marshall clone cab loaded with G12H-30 Anniversarys
Cab mic'ed with Shure SM57 1/2way between center and edge of cone

Nothing exotic...no tricks involved.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 12:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewReligion View Post
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Unread 12-13-2009, 12:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Marshall cabs smoke and no mods need to be done with it.

Just make sure it has all the proper screws and are tight. Choose your speakers, wire it up and be done with it. Easy and fun!
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Unread 12-13-2009, 03:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Jon, your tones and tunes sounded great and thanks for the permission to bias my amps as I always have, lol. My bad I thought this was the Marshall Forum. It appears that I have somehow logged on to the Wilder Amplification page.

NOTE: WARNING: The following is a repeat of the original posted "Disclaimer".

"I push the amps harder, sometimes much harder than most techs and forums would ever advise."

"Wow, I bet I get jumped on by the tech guru's for that statement, LOL."

Don't turn things around in order to make yourself sound like the God of Amplification. And you are wrong. Of course Safety should be practiced in all venues of life but we play Marshalls because we are ALL ABOUT THE TONE!

I understood your point and concern about safety, but then you made an attempt to badger me as you have others, get over yourself and quit playing Forum Police or show me your Badge.

Again, nice tone and fine playing Jon.

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Unread 12-13-2009, 04:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Well I've been here longer than either of you. Before Wilder, there were numerous forum members posting dangerous or improper information. If corrected, most of these members would try to flame your ass. Hot arguing, foul language and no recourse.

Does everyone have a right to post? Yes. Do they have the right to post dangerous or improper amp techniques? Well they can, but if I read it, I will post and I don't think they will like what I have to say.

I feel a lot better that several members flushed out the fakes. The wannabe techs that barely knew how to change preamp tubes. As I said before, "I would rather that one guy be giving out the correct info, than a dozen guys giving out the wrong info."

I have jumped right in and made stern statements only to be flamed by individuals that know little about what they are doing. Sometimes all I left was my original post and let that stand. Often, the OP would recognize the error of their ways and we would end up becoming friends.

Some people are willing to run their amps way outside of the safe working parameters. However, how many amps did EVH burn up in the course of recording the "brown sound?" How many Marshall amps did Jimi fry during the course of a month on tour? When an artists "breaks the mold" and takes his amp into the dark side, they usually have a highly trained tech (as a roadie) that will make any repairs. As great as EVH is, his talent couldn't prevent the massive damage that he would do to his Marshalls. His amps didn't say, "Hey, you're running me at 85 volts. Normally I would blow, but since you're EVH I will just keep chugging along." No, he smoked many amps by running them outside of the parameters. The sad part is that I have seen plenty of amps ruined because some kid decided to mimic EVH and got a hold of a variac and looked at it as an effects unit. They were totally unaware of what the variac would do.

These are the same people that come on the forum and read posts. If a guy says, "My 16 ohm output isn't working, so I've been using my 8 ohm output and I haven't had any problems." Is that something that someone needs to address and rectify? If the same guy says, "I put new power tubes in, but I don't know how to bias them, so I didn't and the amp is working...but something is wrong, because it sounds like shit." Is this a statement that should be left alone because the guy is broke and he can't afford to bias his amp? Does that make it okay?

I made my point 3 or 4 weeks ago when I addressed certain members and asked them to "police" the threads they read. The main reason for the "policing" was SAFETY. Dangerous threads with no disclaimer about high voltage and the repair techniques were wrong and this created numerous safety issues. These posts were putting people AT RISK. Do you let them stand, or do you address the issues? Jon Wilder is probably the most knowledgeable guy on this forum. If I say something wrong and he corrects me, I thank him, I don't get pissed off. I have to wonder who really is the "more sensitive" here? I want Jon Wilder to point out issues and for the most part, he does a good job and the OP doesn't get a hair up his ass. But sometimes Jon may word something that is misunderstood and he has to take a beating for it. I think it would be best to take Jon's statements as they were meant to be taken and let's not all get in a froth about this.

If you want to push the artistic envelope, go right ahead. However, if you list in a post certain techniques that can damage an amp, but you make it seem alright because you need to do it to push the envelope, you will get someone to point out the dangers or the improper techniques. It may not be Jon, it could be me.

As stated, an amp runs within a certain set of boundaries. Operating a high voltage device outside of its normal boundaries is dangerous and these improper techniques need to be pointed out for what they are. There are too many young kids coming on a guests that read these posts. We ought to at least protect their safety.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 05:07 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Thank you for the in depth Marty, I respect your approach. Hope you guys don't run too many decent guitarist off.

David
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Unread 12-13-2009, 05:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Marshall JCM 900 Cab

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewReligion View Post
Thank you for the in depth Marty, I respect your approach. Hope you guys don't run too many decent guitarist off.

David
What makes you think we are trying to run you off? Is it because you said some things that needed to be addressed? Now your ego is bruised and to make yourself feel better, you are threatening to leave the forum?

Please don't let me stop you if that's what you want to do. However, don't say that you are and then stick around. That's tacky.

I don't see us running off the decent guitarists. The decent one's post solid advice and they know when they are getting solid advice.
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