Garage loft vs Basement for band practice.

Webslinger · 02-11-2009, 11:22 AM

Right now this is hypothetical, but eventually I’ll need to decide where to build a cool rec-room (bar, big-screen, billiards, etc) and also in the corner a small stage with a drum kit and amps for 3 guitars, and a recording/computer workstation. We don’t intend to play at crazy volume, but enough to be enjoyable. And also have a few parties now & then.

Ok, there’s a full finished basement, and there’s a semi-finished loft over a two car garage.
My issue is, not annoying the neighbors too much. If we build this in the basement we’re 5 ft below ground and the top of the house will likely muffle a lot of sound. If anyone, then only the closest neighbor might hear something.

Im leaning toward above the garage for a few reasons, but Im thinking the sound will project out of the second-storey walls and the whole block will probably hear us.

Id like to hear from anybody who has had a similar situation, played upstairs or the basement, etc….

American Viking · 02-11-2009, 03:01 PM

basements are cool but you run the risk of flooding depending on where you live. the garage is better if you're married, you can get the hell away from the wife up there...
you can always invest some money into sound proofing the loft. After the sheetrock is setup you can pour a lot of thin particle like insulation down in between the studs, or before the drywall goes up you can just put regular sheet insulation in between the studs to muffle the sound more on all the exterior walls. (this will also make it hold temperature a lot better) you can add more sound proofing on the finished walls, like hanging large blankets and using adhesive to attach big squares and sheets of foam. acoustical ceiling tiles would be a big help too. it's a lot of work but that might be what it takes to jam out in the garage.
the basements much easier i think, just sound proof the ceiling.
good luck dude.

JDM800 · 05-19-2009, 03:48 PM

My old band played in a loft over a garage. You could definitely hear us from out side. A few kids told us they could hear us practice from their neighborhood. But the only person who ever complained was the guy who lived directly below the loft who happened to be our high school principle

The thing is this house we practiced in was literally right on a main road with cars always passing by at 50 mph so that might be why no one ever called the cops because the cars drowned out our sound.

-Its always a good idea to ask your neighbors if they think it would bother them, you might be surprised at how many wouldn't care. But I would go with your basement, depending on where you live, the loft will get as hot as ball sack in the summer.

rockinr0ll · 05-20-2009, 10:28 AM

+1 on the basement getting flooded.

but if you watch it, it is a good area to jam for sure.

abandonreligion · 06-28-2009, 03:59 AM

The ground is a natural insulator of both sound and heat so you would only have to sound proof the ceiling and access door.With regard to the room above the garage to achieve sound insulation you have to create a box within a box ,insulating the floor walls and ceiling ,by this I mean you must build new walls ceiling and floor inside the room 4" away from the existing floor walls and ceiling then insulate them ,also you must fit a second fire check door with a rubber or similar seal.The use of studio foam ,blankets ect hung on the walls DOES NOT insulate sound it just stops some sound waves bouncing around the room.Check out studio foam (acoustic treatment) web sites they will have diagrams to further explain what I mean.
Good luck with it Phil.

Webslinger · 07-24-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abandonreligion

With regard to the room above the garage to achieve sound insulation you have to create a box within a box ,insulating the floor walls and ceiling ,by this I mean you must build new walls ceiling and floor inside the room 4" away from the existing floor walls and ceiling then insulate them.

Well what about the existing 4" space?
There's the outside plywood wall covered by tarpaper/foam/vinylsiding, then there's 2x4" beams with the 4" thick side between the walls, then the inner sheetrock. There's fiberglass in between most of the outer & inner walls. And these are covered with decorations, pictures, beer signs, drapes, wall furniture, etc.
Would this be good enough?

Or are you saying, I should create a second inner wall, another 4" inward from the existing one?

American Viking · 07-24-2009, 10:44 AM

I think if it has fiberglass insulation in it already there is no need to build another one. I think he meant if the original walls didn't have any insulation.
There are also other ways to pad a room without losing square footage. Have you jammed in there yet to see how loud it is outside?

Webslinger · 07-24-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

Have you jammed in there yet to see how loud it is outside?

No, this was an just an idea I was bouncing around. But if/when I get the property, then building a recroom is one of the very first projects. So Im researching ideas now so that I have all the info I need to start.

tyleroceans777 · 08-21-2009, 05:38 AM

I feel your pain on the neighbors and trying to keep them happy. haha my band practices at low volumes and we still got ran out of our neighborhood... we practiced in a garage and anytime the neighbor would see us start to go in there with our gear, 5 minutes later a police officer would show up. we had no where to go... so we rented out a storage unit. haha not the best acoustics for a live band, but we got by with hanging up some blankets/rugs and only paid 50 bucks a month ($10 from each person!) and it was out near a highway with hardly anyone around to bother. we used to play til 5am sometimes! not an awesome idea, but definitely a last resort.

Webslinger · 08-21-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyleroceans777

we had no where to go... so we rented out a storage unit. only paid 50 bucks a month and it was out near a highway with hardly anyone around to bother. we used to play til 5am sometimes!

Interesting idea. What storage place was this? Large enough for a band and with electical power? I pay $100 mo for a 6x6ft closet. (auto parts)

Im surprised they would even let you do that. If you play till 5am, Im assuming its a 24hr-access place and there was no manager on duty then.
I dont think my band could get away with that at any storage center around here. Most of them are too hot to spend any time inside during the summer anyway. And what did you use for electrical power?

American Viking · 08-21-2009, 04:44 PM

That's where I practice, a 10'x30' self storage room. $140 a month, electronic gated access by security keypad, cameras, overnight parking for gigs/tours, 24 hour access to bands only. Customers and no one else is admitted after nine but the bands get a few different privileges like being able to alter the space and so forth. We get treated pretty well and have a great relationship with the managers as long as we keep the area outside our space clean they have no problem. Pretty sweet deal. We rehearse all the time when their office is open and in the dead of night with no problem, the rolling bay door is wide open. A couple of fans in the summer and a little space heater in the winter and it's a really groovy spot. Electrical is fine too, I just took the light fixtures out and replaced them with the ceramic fixture with an outlet on it, ran some extension cords and got it all set up nice. We laid spare carpet on the floors to make it a little nicer and it doesn't get so cold in the winter, absorbs the bounce that would occur from all the sound hitting it too. Got a couch, TV, work bench, and many Marshall stacks! I love it down there.

Riffraff · 08-22-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webslinger

Well what about the existing 4" space?
There's the outside plywood wall covered by tarpaper/foam/vinylsiding, then there's 2x4" beams with the 4" thick side between the walls, then the inner sheetrock. There's fiberglass in between most of the outer & inner walls. And these are covered with decorations, pictures, beer signs, drapes, wall furniture, etc.
Would this be good enough?

Or are you saying, I should create a second inner wall, another 4" inward from the existing one?

Do some research on the web, there's a lot of stuff on soundproofing. The reason for the space is because anything with a hard connection to the surface exposed to the noise conducts the sound through to the outside walls. In this case the 2X4s would transmit the soundwaves through to the outside wall and the outside wall would act as sort of a speaker for the soundwaves. It's the air gaps that help reduce the noise. Mass only absorbs a small percentage of it. The basement is the best choice.......far less expensive and far less work to soundproof.

Webslinger · 08-24-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Viking

That's where I practice, a 10'x30' self storage room. $140 a month, electronic gated access by security keypad, cameras, overnight parking for gigs/tours, 24 hour access to bands only. Customers and no one else is admitted after nine but the bands get a few different privileges like being able to alter the space and so forth. We get treated pretty well and have a great relationship with the managers as long as we keep the area outside our space clean they have no problem. Pretty sweet deal. We rehearse all the time when their office is open and in the dead of night with no problem, the rolling bay door is wide open. A couple of fans in the summer and a little space heater in the winter and it's a really groovy spot. Electrical is fine too, I just took the light fixtures out and replaced them with the ceramic fixture with an outlet on it, ran some extension cords and got it all set up nice. We laid spare carpet on the floors to make it a little nicer and it doesn't get so cold in the winter, absorbs the bounce that would occur from all the sound hitting it too. Got a couch, TV, work bench, and many Marshall stacks! I love it down there.

You got a great deal there, try not to loose it.
I wouldnt think any place would let you have all those privilages? My storage manager would have a kiniption if he saw me using a lightbulb-tab to run a few amps and a space heater...LOL

Is your storage center a private place, or a large chain, I'd like to see if those privelges for bands are universal. You may PM me is you dont wnat everyone to know. Thanks

tyleroceans777 · 09-03-2009, 11:24 PM

we kinda stole the power too. haha there was an outlet about two rows down from our unit and we ran some drop cables to it. haha and yeah! they were hot as hell in the summer. but we dealt with it, we try to tour a little in the summer anyways.

the guys who owned ours had cameras, card key locks and gates, all that mess. he was cool as hell! but then a new guy bought them out and wasnt so cool. thats why we would practice late cause he went home at 6 or 7 everynight.

if you can deal with it, theyre a life saver when you dont have anywhere to go.

thrawn86 · 09-04-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webslinger

Well what about the existing 4" space?
There's the outside plywood wall covered by tarpaper/foam/vinylsiding, then there's 2x4" beams with the 4" thick side between the walls, then the inner sheetrock. There's fiberglass in between most of the outer & inner walls. And these are covered with decorations, pictures, beer signs, drapes, wall furniture, etc.
Would this be good enough?

Or are you saying, I should create a second inner wall, another 4" inward from the existing one?

Technically, if you build a separate wall within the existing wall, you eliminate sound transfer. We do it all the time with drywall in apartment buildings. Often times the shared wall between units is double framed, meaning two separate top and bottom plates, and staggered studs. You leave the space between the two walls hollow, as this acts as a deadener for the sound.

These are the best kind of walls, if you forsee you'll keep practicing where you're at long-term: Frame a second interior wall next to the outside wall (just 1-2 inches between platelines). Overlay this with 'sound board'-wallboard companies make it and it kills the sound. Strip RC Channel over that, and finally install your sheetrock and finish.

If the outside wall is insulated, that is plenty for what you need.

Webslinger · 09-04-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrawn86

Technically, if you build a separate wall ithin the existing wall, you eliminate sound transfer. We do it all the time with drywall in apartment buildings. Often times the shared wall between units is double framed, meaning two separate top and bottom plates, and staggered studs. You leave the space between the two walls hollow, as this acts as a deadener for the sound.

These are the best kind of walls, if you forsee you'll keep practicing where you're at long-term: Frame a second interior wall next to the outside wall (just 1-2 inches between platelines). Overlay this with 'sound board'-wallboard companies make it and it kills the sound. Strip RC Channel over that, and finally install your sheetrock and finish.

If the outside wall is insulated, that is plenty for what you need.

Sound like you've done this before, great! thanks
So let me ask next...there are some windows in the loft as well. Two on each side. (one would have an AC unit during the summer) Even if they are closed, would this defeat all the effort of double walls?
Or would double-pane windows covered with heavy drapes nuetralize them as a breach in a double-wall sound barrier.

thrawn86 · 09-04-2009, 06:10 PM

The windows will definately let sound out, and if you put an internal wall up, you'll more than likely have to frame from it to the existing window jamb, as putting a second set of windows in would be silly.

If you have plenty of lighting, you could always go and buy some sheets of 2-3 inch thick hard insulating foam. Custom cut this with a razor knife, pop it in the window and voila....one more layer to cut sound.

I would get some heavy curtains as well (just drape them around your AC unit). All these things I've suggested are like when you layer up for frigid weather; the more layers, the more the air gets trapped, and thus more heat. In this case it won't make a huge difference with the heat, but each independent pocket of air that is separated from the prevous pocket will transfer less and less to the outside.

thrawn86 · 09-04-2009, 06:43 PM

One more thing to say on this: I had a place where the garage was sunk into the ground on two sides. It is THE fur shure way to kill unwanted sound. The basement idea gets you much closer to manageable volume, but like everyone else said before, flooding or ground seepage can destroy all your valuable stuff. In our old garage we had this happen, although we didn't lose anything-our cabs were on casters and it didn't get to the drumset.

If you go this way, make sure everything is off the floor and watch the place like a hawk after the first few good rains.

02-11-2009, 11:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
Webslinger Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sopranoland, NJ Posts: 396	Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. Right now this is hypothetical, but eventually I’ll need to decide where to build a cool rec-room (bar, big-screen, billiards, etc) and also in the corner a small stage with a drum kit and amps for 3 guitars, and a recording/computer workstation. We don’t intend to play at crazy volume, but enough to be enjoyable. And also have a few parties now & then. Ok, there’s a full finished basement, and there’s a semi-finished loft over a two car garage. My issue is, not annoying the neighbors too much. If we build this in the basement we’re 5 ft below ground and the top of the house will likely muffle a lot of sound. If anyone, then only the closest neighbor might hear something. Im leaning toward above the garage for a few reasons, but Im thinking the sound will project out of the second-storey walls and the whole block will probably hear us. Id like to hear from anybody who has had a similar situation, played upstairs or the basement, etc….

02-11-2009, 03:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 2,031	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. basements are cool but you run the risk of flooding depending on where you live. the garage is better if you're married, you can get the hell away from the wife up there... you can always invest some money into sound proofing the loft. After the sheetrock is setup you can pour a lot of thin particle like insulation down in between the studs, or before the drywall goes up you can just put regular sheet insulation in between the studs to muffle the sound more on all the exterior walls. (this will also make it hold temperature a lot better) you can add more sound proofing on the finished walls, like hanging large blankets and using adhesive to attach big squares and sheets of foam. acoustical ceiling tiles would be a big help too. it's a lot of work but that might be what it takes to jam out in the garage. the basements much easier i think, just sound proof the ceiling. good luck dude. __________________ Transformers inside amplifiers were not originally designed to be in there, and the tube was not created for the guitar amp. ANY recommended idle current is a guideline and in no way a necessary requirement. There is no skeleton key for any tube amp.

05-19-2009, 03:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
JDM800 Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 17	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. My old band played in a loft over a garage. You could definitely hear us from out side. A few kids told us they could hear us practice from their neighborhood. But the only person who ever complained was the guy who lived directly below the loft who happened to be our high school principle The thing is this house we practiced in was literally right on a main road with cars always passing by at 50 mph so that might be why no one ever called the cops because the cars drowned out our sound. -Its always a good idea to ask your neighbors if they think it would bother them, you might be surprised at how many wouldn't care. But I would go with your basement, depending on where you live, the loft will get as hot as ball sack in the summer.

05-20-2009, 10:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
rockinr0ll Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,602	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. +1 on the basement getting flooded. but if you watch it, it is a good area to jam for sure.

06-28-2009, 03:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
abandonreligion Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Manchester Posts: 16	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. The ground is a natural insulator of both sound and heat so you would only have to sound proof the ceiling and access door.With regard to the room above the garage to achieve sound insulation you have to create a box within a box ,insulating the floor walls and ceiling ,by this I mean you must build new walls ceiling and floor inside the room 4" away from the existing floor walls and ceiling then insulate them ,also you must fit a second fire check door with a rubber or similar seal.The use of studio foam ,blankets ect hung on the walls DOES NOT insulate sound it just stops some sound waves bouncing around the room.Check out studio foam (acoustic treatment) web sites they will have diagrams to further explain what I mean. Good luck with it Phil.

Today
Marshall Amps	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on Marshall Amp Forum

07-24-2009, 10:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 2,031	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. I think if it has fiberglass insulation in it already there is no need to build another one. I think he meant if the original walls didn't have any insulation. There are also other ways to pad a room without losing square footage. Have you jammed in there yet to see how loud it is outside? __________________ Transformers inside amplifiers were not originally designed to be in there, and the tube was not created for the guitar amp. ANY recommended idle current is a guideline and in no way a necessary requirement. There is no skeleton key for any tube amp.

08-21-2009, 05:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
tyleroceans777 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The 540, Virginia Posts: 47	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. I feel your pain on the neighbors and trying to keep them happy. haha my band practices at low volumes and we still got ran out of our neighborhood... we practiced in a garage and anytime the neighbor would see us start to go in there with our gear, 5 minutes later a police officer would show up. we had no where to go... so we rented out a storage unit. haha not the best acoustics for a live band, but we got by with hanging up some blankets/rugs and only paid 50 bucks a month ($10 from each person!) and it was out near a highway with hardly anyone around to bother. we used to play til 5am sometimes! not an awesome idea, but definitely a last resort. __________________ Let the dead bury their own dead! Will you still love me in famine as when love began at the harvest? Or would you gain the whole world... Son, I love you at your darkest. But what good is the whole world when I promise no tomorrow? I only promise your tomorrows will never take you past my palm. Love, what is love without trust? At my word would you bring your Isaac? Son, I loved you at your darkest...

08-21-2009, 04:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
American Viking Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA Posts: 2,031	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. That's where I practice, a 10'x30' self storage room. $140 a month, electronic gated access by security keypad, cameras, overnight parking for gigs/tours, 24 hour access to bands only. Customers and no one else is admitted after nine but the bands get a few different privileges like being able to alter the space and so forth. We get treated pretty well and have a great relationship with the managers as long as we keep the area outside our space clean they have no problem. Pretty sweet deal. We rehearse all the time when their office is open and in the dead of night with no problem, the rolling bay door is wide open. A couple of fans in the summer and a little space heater in the winter and it's a really groovy spot. Electrical is fine too, I just took the light fixtures out and replaced them with the ceramic fixture with an outlet on it, ran some extension cords and got it all set up nice. We laid spare carpet on the floors to make it a little nicer and it doesn't get so cold in the winter, absorbs the bounce that would occur from all the sound hitting it too. Got a couch, TV, work bench, and many Marshall stacks! I love it down there. __________________ Transformers inside amplifiers were not originally designed to be in there, and the tube was not created for the guitar amp. ANY recommended idle current is a guideline and in no way a necessary requirement. There is no skeleton key for any tube amp.

09-03-2009, 11:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
tyleroceans777 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The 540, Virginia Posts: 47	Re: Garage loft vs Basement for band practice. we kinda stole the power too. haha there was an outlet about two rows down from our unit and we ran some drop cables to it. haha and yeah! they were hot as hell in the summer. but we dealt with it, we try to tour a little in the summer anyways. the guys who owned ours had cameras, card key locks and gates, all that mess. he was cool as hell! but then a new guy bought them out and wasnt so cool. thats why we would practice late cause he went home at 6 or 7 everynight. if you can deal with it, theyre a life saver when you dont have anywhere to go. __________________ Let the dead bury their own dead! Will you still love me in famine as when love began at the harvest? Or would you gain the whole world... Son, I love you at your darkest. But what good is the whole world when I promise no tomorrow? I only promise your tomorrows will never take you past my palm. Love, what is love without trust? At my word would you bring your Isaac? Son, I loved you at your darkest...

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode